Current Affairs Tommy Robinson Bailed

[TraffordBlue]

Aye, Tommy might appear of predictable ilk: organised hooliganism, BNP/EDL, anti-Islam, samey criminal record...but he has an eloquence and fierce logic which isn't to be underestimated by those who oppose him. He also holds cards which go against nazism-ideals (being pro-Israel, for example), this throws off name-callers.

The Left haven't been ready for this recent birth of Right/conservative US/UK intellects (Tommy, Milo, Shapiro, Murray, Sargon, Rubin, Peterson etc). The Left only feel instinctively against them and show it in spades. This isn't a clever strategy.

It seems to me that he picks and chooses which 'type' of abuse he wants to focus on, and only looks at it from a one dimensional angle. Not sure how he can be credited with logic in that case?

There shouldn't be a sweeping under the carpet of any abuse, and these Asian grooming gangs are a problem. But it's very biased and narrow minded to focus solely on grooming 'gangs' when there are so many cases of grooming in this country, as well as an abuse of power, with sexual abuse often committed by Christian and White Men as well.

But 'Tommy' and his followers don't seem to want to focus on grooming and sexual abuse committed by Christian or White Men (as far as I am aware). Which is why he gets criticised.

 

[dholliday]

Grooming gangs are merely his latest weapon. The fact that this particular form of sexual exploitation is dominated by Asian men, doesn’t alter the fact that well over 90% of sexual abuse crimes are committed by white U.K. born men. Including virtual all acts of genuine paedophilia.

That's the key bit of our discussion, remember?

What other grooming gang scandals have there been lately?

The fact that this particular form of sexual exploitation is dominated by Asian men...

I agree he's focussing on this to further his anti-Islam agenda, but it's hard to argue against how appaling those grooming-gang's crimes are, and as you say yourself it's a fact that the perps are dominated by men who call Islam their religion. These are new recent crimes in addition to the usual child-abuse crimes any society has.

Here's an interesting piece from The Indy:

The UK Hindu Council and the Sikh Federation asked that the perpetrators be described as Pakistani Muslims, rather than Asian

 

[dholliday]

there are so many cases of grooming in this country, as well as an abuse of power, with sexual abuse often committed by Christian and White Men as well.

But 'Tommy' and his followers don't seem to want to focus on grooming and sexual abuse committed by Christian or White Men (as far as I am aware). Which is why he gets criticised.

Which other cases of recent mass grooming of vulnerable girls has there been?

 

[bicycleheader]

He's clearly a bigot and a thug and uses whatever he can to further his agenda, so on the last couple of pages I'm struggling to understand the point or end goal of this educated version of Ashtonian who's turned their interest to this thread

 

[TraffordBlue]

Which other cases of recent mass grooming of vulnerable girls has there been?

Why does it have to be 'mass grooming'? All grooming is wrong and it's not just Asian men that are exploiting young people in this country. Anyone guilty of it is a vile individual.

It's a bit like America's gun problem. Mass shootings are a real problem as are normal ones where it might be a 1 on 1 attack. Doesn't just mean mass shootings should be focused on in ways to tackle the gun problem over there.

 

[Prevenger17]

That's the key bit of our discussion, remember?





I agree he's focussing on this to further his anti-Islam agenda, but it's hard to argue against how appaling those grooming-gang's crimes are, and as you say yourself it's a fact that the perps are dominated by men who call Islam their religion. These are new recent crimes in addition to the usual child-abuse crimes any society has.

Here's an interesting piece from The Indy:

The UK Hindu Council and the Sikh Federation asked that the perpetrators be described as Pakistani Muslims, rather than Asian

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.the...rwich-paedophile-ring-marie-black-jailed-life


Even if it turned out all the grooming gangs were muslim or some other demographic, what difference does it make? How does highlighting their ethnicity help unless you want to start profiling people? Their ethnicity is irrelevant, as was Jimmy Savile's, let them rot in jail

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

That's the key bit of our discussion, remember?





I agree he's focussing on this to further his anti-Islam agenda, but it's hard to argue against how appaling those grooming-gang's crimes are, and as you say yourself it's a fact that the perps are dominated by men who call Islam their religion. These are new recent crimes in addition to the usual child-abuse crimes any society has.

Here's an interesting piece from The Indy:

The UK Hindu Council and the Sikh Federation asked that the perpetrators be described as Pakistani Muslims, rather than Asian

Only no one is arguing against how appalling these groups are.

What people are objecting to is the deliberate attempt at demonising Muslims using the poor young girls who’ve been abused as the current weapon of choice, for the hate filled bigot and his lager swilling knuckle head mates.

‘Who’s streets, our streets’, slide back under your rock you disgusting filth, is what the consistent message to these ‘patriots’ should be.

 

[dholliday]

He's clearly a bigot and a thug and uses whatever he can to further his agenda, so on the last couple of pages I'm struggling to understand the point or end goal of this educated version of Ashtonian who's turned their interest to this thread

wow

Why does it have to be 'mass grooming'? All grooming is wrong and it's not just Asian men that are exploiting young people in this country. Anyone guilty of it is a vile individual.

It's a bit like America's gun problem. Mass shootings are a real problem as are normal ones where it might be a 1 on 1 attack. Doesn't just mean mass shootings should be focused on in ways to tackle the gun problem over there.

I personally agree with that. I'm only explaining the appeal of a Tommy Robinson, not that I'm personally sold on him. His hooligan/BNP-template along with myriad violent misdemeanours turns me off his character, but he is objectively a good talker. He is appealing to many others, and as some of yous have already said (and which I agree with) he focusses on things that are hard to argue against to further his agenda.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.the...rwich-paedophile-ring-marie-black-jailed-life


Even if it turned out all the grooming gangs were muslim or some other demographic, what difference does it make? How does highlighting their ethnicity help unless you want to start profiling people? Their ethnicity is irrelevant, as was Jimmy Savile's, let them rot in jail

As the Sikh groups implied in that Indy link, there's something deeply-misogynistic about attitudes towards women from certain demographics:

One of the demands in the Sikh Manifesto that we published a year ago before the General Election was that the government should encourage public bodies and the media to abandon the use of the term ‘Asian’ when describing perpetrators for reasons of political correctness.

“If the four men that have been found guilty and carried out the abuse were Pakistani Muslims, this is how they should be described and not called Asian.”

In a joint statement, the Hindu Council UK, the Network of Sikh Organisations, Sikh Media Monitoring Group and the Sikh Awareness Society, said: “Communities who themselves fall victim of this emerging pattern of criminality, should not be besmirched by the vague terminology ‘Asian’…in order to help find a solution to the problem, we need to be clear on the identity of those involved.”

Robinson is feeding on what the Hindu Council is fighting against, them two are ostensibly on the same side. Which makes for a confusing battleground when you also factor in the majority of Muslim communities who are as appalled & outraged by the grooming gangs as we are.

Your link of the Norwich ring proves the grooming gangs aren't exclusively Muslim, but we know from the C4 link @Foot Long Hot Dog shared: the majority of recorded "Type 1" cases are from Muslim perps. As Islam is a minority religion in the UK, it's worth mulling over why that might be.

As if we're not mulling over it, someone else will, someone of harder agendas and less goodwill than we have. That's the significance, whether we like it or not.

 

[roydo]

He is appealing to many others, and as some of yous have already said (and which I agree with) he focusses on things that are hard to argue against to further his agenda.

Hard to argue against?

Wow.

 

[dholliday]

Hard to argue against?

Wow.

There is a reason why many in the country are supporting him, i.e. they don't think he's talking total bollocks. Check out the Mail and their reader comments, for example.

I realise this is setting the bar low, that we here are more thoughtful than that, but I believe dismissing Robinson & his supporters as hopeless bellends only strengthens their argument. And that's bad because their argument can get quite extreme. We weaken their hand when the mainstream mull over the same issues, but in a more thoughtful humane way. The base is then covered, the masses feel like they're being listened to. A Tommy Robinson can receive little oxygen this way.

By extension see also how middle-of-the-road popular publications like The Mail (and here in Germany Die Welt, for example) amplify the hateful hand the Tommy Robinsons are dealing with their incessant reporting of crimes from a certain demographic. These publications have room to do this, because our preferred publications avoid it altogether.

It's all part of a wider phenomenon of debate being too polarised these days. This can only benefit the bad Tommys of this world.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

There is a reason why many in the country are supporting him

They're idiots?

 

[tsubaki]

There is a reason why many in the country are supporting him, i.e. they don't think he's talking total bollocks. Check out the Mail and their reader comments, for example.

I realise this is setting the bar low, that we here are more thoughtful than that, but I believe dismissing Robinson & his supporters as hopeless bellends only strengthens their argument. And that's bad because their argument can get quite extreme. We weaken their hand when the mainstream mull over the same issues, but in a more thoughtful humane way. The base is then covered, the masses feel like they're being listened to. A Tommy Robinson can receive little oxygen this way.

By extension see also how middle-of-the-road popular publications like The Mail (and here in Germany Die Welt, for example) amplify the hateful hand the Tommy Robinsons are dealing with their incessant reporting of crimes from a certain demographic. These publications have room to do this, because our preferred publications avoid it altogether.

It's all part of a wider phenomenon of debate being too polarised these days. This can only benefit the bad Tommys of this world.

The reason so many people in the country are supporting him is because he is espousing causes that the papers millions of people read have espoused for decades, and because he is backed by very rich, very influential people including some of those who got Trump elected (on a related theme, check out who donates to the Middle East Forum - who bankrolled Robinson's defence; they include ).

Robinson is not some kind of man rose from nothing to pose a danger to the established order; he is the sort of person who the established order turn to in order to avoid something they fear.

 

[dholliday]

The reason so many people in the country are supporting him is because he is espousing causes that the papers millions of people read have espoused for decades, and because he is backed by very rich, very influential people including some of those who got Trump elected (on a related theme, check out who donates to the Middle East Forum - who bankrolled Robinson's defence; they include ).

Interesting. Bit like the Koch Bros backing Rubin? If you've got a link about that I'd like to check it out.

Would you agree that regardless of how Tommy came to be, that the most effective way to nullify his influence is to talk about what he talks about but in a more humane & fair manner? This would bring most of the reasonable pro-Tommy lot onside while only leaving him with the extremists, he wouldn't get very far then.

Robinson is not some kind of man rose from nothing to pose a danger to the established order; he is the sort of person who the established order turn to in order to avoid something they fear.

What's that more specifically?

 

[Jebus_lives]

The reason so many people in the country are supporting him is because he is espousing causes that the papers millions of people read have espoused for decades, and because he is backed by very rich, very influential people including some of those who got Trump elected (on a related theme, check out who donates to the Middle East Forum - who bankrolled Robinson's defence; they include ).

Robinson is not some kind of man rose from nothing to pose a danger to the established order; he is the sort of person who the established order turn to in order to avoid something they fear.

I'm not sure he has that many followers. His media presence is afforded by his social media presence which is a bunch of racists and bigots shouting and threatening millennials and liberal elite.

The fact that the likes of the BBC give him a platform indicates how appalling their coverage is and how Ken they are to court sensationalism rather than actual journalistic integrity.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Interesting. Bit like the Koch Bros backing Rubin? If you've got a link about that I'd like to check it out.

Would you agree that regardless of how Tommy came to be, that the most effective way to nullify his influence is to talk about what he talks about but in a more humane & fair manner? This would bring most of the reasonable pro-Tommy lot onside while only leaving him with the extremists, he wouldn't get very far then.





What's that more specifically?

This is incredibly kopite.

Hendo, Bobby, Boris...Tommy.