Current Affairs Tommy Robinson Bailed

[dholliday]

It's not exactly revolutionary, Dani Rodrik was speaking about the challenge over a decade ago.

You can have two of those, but never really all three. I'd be quite happy to do away with the nation state.

Utopian thinking, not practical. There are 7 billion people in the world. If the whole world was borderless free-movement, where would most of those people want to go? They'd go to developed nations, leaving developing nations (or regions) decidedly undeveloped.

The ensuing chaos & lack of balance would be unimaginable.

Better is to encourage secular intellectualism in the developing nations, so that they may economically & culturally catch up. This has proven to work quite well for Eastern European nations as well as those in the Americas and East Asia.

I disagree with there even being a trilemma where one has to make way.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Utopian thinking, not practical. There are 7 billion people in the world. If the whole world was borderless free-movement, where would most of those people want to go? They'd go to developed nations, leaving developing nations (or regions) decidedly undeveloped.

The ensuing chaos & lack of balance would be unimaginable.

Better is to encourage secular intellectualism in the developing nations, so that they may economically & culturally catch up. This has proven to work quite well for Eastern European nations as well as those in the Americas and East Asia.

I disagree with there even being a trilemma where one has to make way.

You're betraying your white man's burden there my friend.

 

[dholliday]

You're betraying your white man's burden there my friend.

You're betraying your preoccupation with the concept of a white man anything.

Can you answer my response to your open borders idea, mate? You do give thoughtful answers, so I'm interested. Here it is again:

There are 7 billion people in the world. If the whole world was borderless free-movement, where would most of those people want to go?

 

[roydo]

I disagree with there even being a trilemma where one has to make way.

Not gonna lie, me neither.

It seems to simplify a complex issue, but prove diddly squat.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You're betraying your preoccupation with the concept of a white man anything.

Can you answer my response to your open borders idea, mate? You do give thoughtful answers, so I'm interested. Here it is again:

The evidence to date suggests that it is overwhelmingly the educated that migrate. For instance, it's estimated that 5.4% of graduates migrate, versus just 1.8% of those with high school education, and 1.1% with lower than that. The benefits of that are evident, whether it's the 10% of patents globally registered to people outside of their native land, or the 31% of Nobel laureates who are likewise.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Not gonna lie, me neither.

It seems to simplify a complex issue, but prove diddly squat.

Well of course, it's one diagram so it's inevitably going to simplify things enormously. He explains things much more in his book on the topic - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9303596-the-globalization-paradox - and no doubt in his various bits of work at Harvard. Incidentally, he's a Turk who now works in the US.

 

[roydo]

Well of course, it's one diagram so it's inevitably going to simplify things enormously. He explains things much more in his book on the topic - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9303596-the-globalization-paradox - and no doubt in his various bits of work at Harvard. Incidentally, he's a Turk who now works in the US.

Will read it later, honest. (!). Just about to start cooking a lovely beef stew with dumplings cos its rainy, windy, and I got soaked last week. Twice.

*wrings socks out*

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You're betraying your preoccupation with the concept of a white man anything.

Incidentally, this was a reference to William Easterly's book (which of course referenced the Kipling poem) - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/33513.The_White_Man_s_Burden

 

[dholliday]

The evidence to date suggests that it is overwhelmingly the educated that migrate. For instance, it's estimated that 5.4% of graduates migrate, versus just 1.8% of those with high school education, and 1.1% with lower than that. The benefits of that are evident, whether it's the 10% of patents globally registered to people outside of their native land, or the 31% of Nobel laureates who are likewise.

That didn't answer my question. The evidence to date pertains to today, where every nation has rules. So of course the educated will migrate, for they have more chance to be accepted. Here's my question again to your open borders mania:

There are 7 billion people in the world. If the whole world was borderless free-movement, where would most of those people want to go?

 

[GrandOldTeam]

They do exploit this IMO.

Particularly when the far left try and close off/belittle concerns.

Example "Any concern over immigration = racist" "Don't like the EU, voted leave = racist" type narrative plays right into the far right's hands.

Opposing racism creates racism?

My point exactly.

Immigration and voting to leave the EU doesn't mean racist.

You stigmatise, close off that debate/allow room for misinformation and then you see the growth of the likes of Rebel Media etc.

 

[Number_25]

My point exactly.

Immigration and voting to leave the EU doesn't mean racist.

You stigmatise, close off that debate/allow room for misinformation and then you see the growth of the likes of Rebel Media etc.

But I'm not saying that voting to leave the EU is racist?

It's exactly this dangerous conflation, akin to the sort of identity politics that the right are all too keen to shout down.

You should know better.

 

[Number_25]

Utopian thinking, not practical. There are 7 billion people in the world. If the whole world was borderless free-movement, where would most of those people want to go?

It would probably force us to do something about the horrendous global disparity.

I'm all for it, to be honest.

 

[roydo]

But I'm not saying that voting to leave the EU is racist?

It's exactly this dangerous conflation, akin to the sort of identity politics that the right are all too keen to shout down.

You should know better.

Nice.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

That didn't answer my question. The evidence to date pertains to today, where every nation has rules. So of course the educated will migrate, for they have more chance to be accepted. Here's my question again to your open borders mania:

Well there isn't much evidence to go on to show either way, is there? In the EU, free movement has not been at all catastrophic, despite there being every incentive for those from poorer nations to migrate to wealthier ones.

 

[dholliday]

Well there isn't much evidence to go on to show either way, is there? In the EU, free movement has not been at all catastrophic, despite there being every incentive for those from poorer nations to migrate to wealthier ones.

The EU is not comparable with the rest of the world.