To cheat or not to cheat?

[Goat]

No, I don't think I am.

Snide

Not Snide

 

[Azzurri]

Danno m8.

If we cheated to score a 5th I'd be like 'ffs', but if it was to get a last minute winner - NEA.

Depends what it is as well. Don't like diving, but think 'winning a penalty' is acceptable. Deliberate hand ball I don't like, but you shouldn't 'own up' if the ref misses something. Get me lad?

 

[Chang Elephant]

Snide

Not Snide

"Lol"

 

[roydo]

No, I don't think I am.

I think you are. By about a billion light years.

 

[dholliday]

I don't agree.

There has been plenty of gamesmanship at Goodison over the years, and I don't remember there being much uproar about it. I have never heard anyone have any misgivings over Anders Limpar's dive against Wimbledon in 1994. Nobody gave a ****. Nobody was arsed about the fact that Bolton had a perfectly good goal disallowed at the Reebok in 1998 either. Our players weren't like "No ref, it went in, award them the goal as it crossed the line". There will have been plenty of other examples that I can't remember as well.

All this rainbow warrior stuff is a combination of Moyes' indoctrinating Evertonians with his bible bashing ethos, a defence mechanism for not being successful, and wanting to disassociate ourselves with the RS' successful implementation of gamesmanship over the years.

Well then you would have rather seen Limpar booked and us go in 2-0 down at half time against Wimbledon in 1994 then.

Some Evertonians can massage their own ego with rainbow warrior defence mechanisms, but nobody else in the league will give a toss. I heard Sharpy saying the other week that Kendal used to tell his players to put pressure on the referee, and quite rightly too. Rainbow warriors finish last.

Brave post. As you've been redded into oblivion you got maximum green from me not because I fully agree, but because provocative posts which are largely based in reality are refreshing round these parts.


I think the nuances are thus:

- most of us agree we should put more aggressive pressure on refs.
- most of us agree that we're not entirely innocent of the odd cheating action.
- most of us believe we are clumsier cheaters, and therefore more often not rewarded, and therefore do it less, than other big clubs.
- most of us would rather our player did a snidey cheat if it meant staying in the league/winning a cup than not cheating and losing out.

If you felt all warm and fuzzy after that game im not sure what to think, I just felt ill for about 6months after it.

proper old-school that.

Mirallas was doing a very noble act indeed. Standing up for what is right in this world. He just didn't go far enough.

Attempting to injure the opposing player on purpose isn't cheating at all.

I think you are. By about a billion light years.

It's easy to get side-tracked into the differences between snide and cheat. Truth is, tho', if one of our players tripped up a marauding red forward on his way to goal and the ref didn't spot it, we would all cheer.

That's snide, and we'd support it.

 

[roydo]

Christ, if Eberton didnt "cheat", we would never ever give a freekick away ffs. Its all about degrees, and snide based stuff is generally not liked in L4. Has happened, of course. Difference is, we dont like it. Some clubs not far from here will tolerate it.

Thats the difference imo.

 

[ianefc]

At one point we were on some sort of run where we didn't have a player booked for dissent for about 3 years, the players never surrounded the ref, they accepted decisions right or wrong. The player who broke our no bookings for dissent run was Mannie Fernandes on his 2nd debut away at Blackburn when he punched the ball into the ground and was booked, Phil Neville talked of how at UTD he/they were encouraged to chase down the ref and whinge and moan and at Everton it was the opposite, that came from Moyes and he'll try to instill it at UTD my point is we never get any credit for that publicly or in the media, so you could ask why bother, but I am proud of the way the club conducts itself both on and off the pitch. I would never want a cheat to be at the club and continue cheating, when Barkley dove, Neville both in the derby in the last year, also when Jelavic first joined he was on the wing and tried to make out that a player had struck him in the face and they highlighted it on MOTD and its was embarrassing it doesn't make you a ultra fan supporting a cheating player, I remember the stick some RS fans got on RAWK for for criticising Suarez and his bite not to mention the stick they gave Souness For what he had to say after That Chelsea game. Utterly pathetic, nothing comes free in football but club and fan morals can be and you can still win by playing fair.

 

[Royal Blue Jersey]

Cheat against the top sides, not against the rest. Never get any decisions from refs in those games anyway.
I think it's really scummy cheating to win pens e.t.c against promoted teams at home.

 

[Chang Elephant]

Christ, if Eberton didnt "cheat", we would never ever give a freekick away ffs. Its all about degrees, and snide based stuff is generally not liked in L4. Has happened, of course. Difference is, we dont like it. Some clubs not far from here will tolerate it.

Thats the difference imo.

They celebrate it

 

[Royal Blue Jersey]

Not at all, he didnt try and hide it, think your missing the meaning of snide.

Whether snide is the proper description, it was certainly wrong. Some of the stuff he did was plain embarrassing.

 

[Goat]

Whether snide is the proper description, it was certainly wrong. Some of the stuff he did was plain embarrassing.

Possibly, but he was never what I consider snidey, thuggish, maybe, stupid at times, defo.

 

[roydo]

Brave post. As you've been redded into oblivion you got maximum green from me not because I fully agree, but because provocative posts which are largely based in reality are refreshing round these parts.


I think the nuances are thus:

- most of us agree we should put more aggressive pressure on refs.
- most of us agree that we're not entirely innocent of the odd cheating action.
- most of us believe we are clumsier cheaters, and therefore more often not rewarded, and therefore do it less, than other big clubs.
- most of us would rather our player did a snidey cheat if it meant staying in the league/winning a cup than not cheating and losing out.




proper old-school that.




Attempting to injure the opposing player on purpose isn't cheating at all.

It's easy to get side-tracked into the differences between snide and cheat. Truth is, tho', if one of our players tripped up a marauding red forward on his way to goal and the ref didn't spot it, we would all cheer.

That's snide, and we'd support it.[/QUOTE]

Yeah we would, but thats totally different! Thats not trying to con the ref, thats taking one for the team. Kev wasnt being a snide on the Rat. He was being daft, and it could/should have been red, but it was a blatant, late, high "tackle".

Not the sort of shoite that. for an easy example, the Rat does, and gets away with, cos he is a snide. He was at it again at Hull btw.

 

[dholliday]

when Jelavic first joined he was on the wing and tried to make out that a player had struck him in the face and they highlighted it on MOTD and its was embarrassing

Diving and feigning injury to illegally get free-kicks and the opposition sent off is on a whole other level. But there'd be stages of acceptance and non-acceptance:

- I'd grudgingly accept a dive if it meant something as important as staying in the league.
- I'd publicly say "it's a shame we had to dive" if we used it to win a cup.
- I'd bollock any of our players doing it in more meaningless games.


But snide cheating like tripping up the opposition, pressuring refs, sneaky handballs...stuff like that I don't have much of a problem with.

 

[dholliday]

Yeah we would, but thats totally different! Thats not trying to con the ref, thats taking one for the team. Kev wasnt being a snide on the Rat. He was being daft, and it could/should have been red, but it was a blatant, late, high "tackle".

Not the sort of shoite that. for an easy example, the Rat does, and gets away with, cos he is a snide. He was at it again at Hull btw.

Aye, I agree with you in my post above this one.

 

[Bungle]

I assumed this was another of MickM86's relationship threads