The Unsworth effect

[Zatara]

Galloway cant get a game for West Brom. Davies has played half games here and there, Holgate has played what, two games?

They all did Ok, well in fact but there is no guarantee that they will come in and do great either.

What if they do come in and struggle? Its not easy to step into a struggling side. I like all the players you mention and agree that the first teamers have been awful but again, its not football manager, you dont just replace 3-4 players in a first team with young lads who have about 5 games between them.

I mean....you can I suppose. But if it all goes wrong what then?

Having them on the bench ready to play would be ideal.

Bench with decent game time at a minimum.

Instead weve dropped Holgate after motm vs stoke, sent galloway into pulis cursed annual loan deal and davies just gets a few mins.

I think if unsworth was manager from the summer we would be doing far better than we are.

 

[Joey66]

Galloway cant get a game for West Brom. Davies has played half games here and there, Holgate has played what, two games?

They all did Ok, well in fact but there is no guarantee that they will come in and do great either.

What if they do come in and struggle? Its not easy to step into a struggling side. I like all the players you mention and agree that the first teamers have been awful but again, its not football manager, you dont just replace 3-4 players in a first team with young lads who have about 5 games between them.

I mean....you can I suppose. But if it all goes wrong what then?

Having them on the bench ready to play would be ideal.

WBA the team about to leap frog us in the league you mean?

 

[Zatara]

Talking about Holgate mate? If so he wasn't motm last time he played he wa spretty crap against Norwich in fact

Yeah, i ignore the norwich game as koeman made so many changes then after the game basically didnt seem bothered about the result.

Against stoke he was motm.

 

[bluestevon]

There's no pressure being U23 manager, we don't know how good he is. If we approach him and say if you can find a job you want being first team coach then you have our blessing with a view to gaining experience to take the job here I think that would benefit all.

It's highly unlikely that he would go from league one/championship level to a man utd/Arsenal next, so we should still be his number 1 choice especially with the attachment to the club.

As per Royle with Oldham.

Talking about Holgate mate? If so he wasn't motm last time he played he wa spretty crap against Norwich in fact

Unsworth would 100% come back to Everton anytime we came calling for him - regardless of what other job he had or was offered, the bloke is blue to the bone

 

[Zatara]

Pretty much agree with this. Except Connelly is very two footed and left back has been his primary position both at Everton and England.

What we have is an unusually large group of very good young players, many of who have a good chance of carving out a career at the top level. And by that I mean Premier standard. But none of them are at the level that Rooney or Barkley were at the same age. Or Stones for that matter. Plus, if Everton progress to where we want them to be, I doubt whether more than a couple will be good enough to make it with us.

And you definitely can't compare with the Man Utd kids of 20 years ago. Giggs, Beckham and Scholes were all genuine world class players and you could also argue that, in his position, Gary Neville was too. Plus, you couldn't introduce a group of kids into the ultra competitive Premier league now, like you could in those days. Even then it was a huge gamble by Fergie ffs.

Having said that, it is important for their development that these players do get a taste of first team action. I'd rather see some of them on the bench than the likes of Cleverley, Valencia and even an under performing Geri and Kev. Even games like last week, home to bottom club, Koeman could have given Davies a start but preferred a player who had been out injured for the best part of 3 months.

It's definitely a negative for me that Koeman doesn't appear to trust the youngsters, but to throw them all in together would do them more harm than good.

Im not sure why @bluestevon thouggt i meant to throw them all in together.

My question was that if Unsworth had been appointed manager instead of koeman would he be doing better?

I also think just from what ive heard from others and seen for a short period of time that there would be a few differences with the squad.

e.g Galloway, Connolly, Holgate and Kenny would have got minutes on the pitch and increased time if they performed.

Davies and possibly dowell the same

At the very least theres over 10 players we could sell right now and put these guys on the bench.

 

[Zatara]

Unsworth would 100% come back to Everton anytime we came calling for him - regardless of what other job he had or was offered, the bloke is blue to the bone

I dont see the point of letting him go somewhere else.

He is doing well with the youth...crazy to let him go anywhere.

what would have happened if real or barca had let pep and zidane go.off instead of taking over?

 

[JonS]

I think the serioius side of this for me is that, though he got away with it at Southampton, Koeman cant be allowed to put our academy in mothballs.

That is part of our identity. Regardless of how much money we may have in the future to spend on players (IF we do) having kids break through from the club's own teams is essential to retain a feeling of who we are as a club.

The talent is there, Koeman has to be forced to play these youngsters. The owner has to impress that this is who we are as a club, and fans have to get after him over it. His comment post match yesterday in relation to Sims was a disgraceful bit of ignorance. He cant take us down that route - if he does he'll hollow us out into being just another identikit club, indistinguishable from other no mark organisations in this transfer merry-go-round Premier League.

I echo your point about not wanting to be an identikit club. Rather than a team of identikit , interchangeable (with other clubs) Witsel-like players I'd mould our best youngsters with external signings that really get the club and lead by example (Cahill or Peter Reid like players).

 

[bluestevon]

Pretty much agree with this. Except Connelly is very two footed and left back has been his primary position both at Everton and England.

What we have is an unusually large group of very good young players, many of who have a good chance of carving out a career at the top level. And by that I mean Premier standard. But none of them are at the level that Rooney or Barkley were at the same age. Or Stones for that matter. Plus, if Everton progress to where we want them to be, I doubt whether more than a couple will be good enough to make it with us.

And you definitely can't compare with the Man Utd kids of 20 years ago. Giggs, Beckham and Scholes were all genuine world class players and you could also argue that, in his position, Gary Neville was too. Plus, you couldn't introduce a group of kids into the ultra competitive Premier league now, like you could in those days. Even then it was a huge gamble by Fergie ffs.

Having said that, it is important for their development that these players do get a taste of first team action. I'd rather see some of them on the bench than the likes of Cleverley, Valencia and even an under performing Geri and Kev. Even games like last week, home to bottom club, Koeman could have given Davies a start but preferred a player who had been out injured for the best part of 3 months.

It's definitely a negative for me that Koeman doesn't appear to trust the youngsters, but to throw them all in together would do them more harm than good.

Neville was one of the best 2-3 right backs in the game for 10 years or so IMO mate, hated the bloke when he was playing but an absolutely fantastic player, in total they prodccued one of the top 2-3 players for a decade or soin the world at rb, lw, and cm and a very good player in Beckham who was arguably the best set piece taker in the game as well.

Basically they hit the gold mine - producing 4 players for there position close to the quality of Rooney all at the same time - pretty much outside of the great Ajax teams unheard of in football - but Man U had the finances to ensure they allstayed together unlike the Dutch teams.

If two of out current 17-21 yo's make it to play for Everton long term in the first team i'd be bouncing, talk about 5-6 of them is just pie in the sky

 

[davek]

lol

Dave we didn't need more Martinez, repackaged.

Arguably we don't also need more Moyes, repackaged

If Guardiola walked through the doors he'd want to see all levels of the club playing in that manner.

The system is sound, we can argue about who can best make it more solid defensively, but there's no substitute for having the ball in a football match - despite what all the gegenpress bores tell you.

 

[bluestevon]

I dont see the point of letting him go somewhere else.

He is doing well with the youth...crazy to let him go anywhere.

what would have happened if real or barca had let pep and zidane go.off instead of taking over?

Because the step up from managing a youth team or being an assistant manager is huge and something if we are serious about becoming a top team again we shouldn't even contemplate doing, risk mitigation - let him learn the senior management game at someone elses risk mate

 

[davek]

I echo your point about not wanting to be an identikit club. Rather than a team of identikit , interchangeable (with other clubs) Witsel-like players I'd mould our best youngsters with external signings that really get the club and lead by example (Cahill or Peter Reid like players).

If you can do that you've cracked it.

 

[Papa Shango]

Bench with decent game time at a minimum.

Instead weve dropped Holgate after motm vs stoke, sent galloway into pulis cursed annual loan deal and davies just gets a few mins.

I think if unsworth was manager from the summer we would be doing far better than we are.

I doubt it as we would still have the same core of the team who obviously cant be bothered playing for anybody.

Unsworth is fine where he is. He is doing a good job.

 

[JonS]

Because the step up from managing a youth team or being an assistant manager is huge and something if we are serious about becoming a top team again we shouldn't even contemplate doing, risk mitigation - let him learn the senior management game at someone elses risk mate

The problem is Koeman was a risk mitigation choice, as is playing our seasoned pros (even if they have been a bit crap recently) rather than giving youngsters a chance.

Sometimes one needs to take risks and chances (or do we want to be 7th for ever)?

 

[Zatara]

Neville was one of the best 2-3 right backs in the game for 10 years or so IMO mate, hated the bloke when he was playing but an absolutely fantastic player, in total they prodccued one of the top 2-3 players for a decade or soin the world at rb, lw, and cm and a very good player in Beckham who was arguably the best set piece taker in the game as well.

Basically they hit the gold mine - producing 4 players for there position close to the quality of Rooney all at the same time - pretty much outside of the great Ajax teams unheard of in football - but Man U had the finances to ensure they allstayed together unlike the Dutch teams.

If two of out current 17-21 yo's make it to play for Everton long term in the first team i'd be bouncing, talk about 5-6 of them is just pie in the sky

The 1st team SQUAD is 25 players...

18 in the matchday squad.

From what we have all seen, there should be at least 5 of them in the squad who are coming through.

 

[bluestevon]

I dont see the point of letting him go somewhere else.

He is doing well with the youth...crazy to let him go anywhere.

what would have happened if real or barca had let pep and zidane go.off instead of taking over?

Big difference mate, both Zidane and Guardiola managed the B sides in the Secunda Division so in effect the Spanish equivalent of the Championship - a genuinely competitive league - in effect they where managing the equivalents of Sheff Weds, Birmingham, Wolves etc, but within the framework of still being attached to Madrid - so an absolutely ideal situation - far far removed from stepping upfrom managing a premiership under 23s/21s side then becoming manager of the first team

BTW Barca did let Enrique go after managing the B team to Roma then Celta and when they wanted him they got him back - as a manager who had proven himself