The Unsworth effect

[Zatara]

Louis Van Gaal AND Ronald Koeman rate him. Wowzers!!

Professional managers and footballers have a long and distinguished history of being utterly clueless when it comes to rating other players. It's clear to most people that Depay is another inconsistent, fairweather sulk who doesn't have the spine to contribute to a successful team. We have too many of these types of players, why don't we start looking at buying winners instead of other team's castoffs?

In fairness, Depay defininitely has a winning arrogant mentality where he seems to think he is world class...its about guiding him a bit and if done correctly he could be amazing...he could also be dreadful.

Hence loan to buy.

 

[orly]

I think the serioius side of this for me is that, though he got away with it at Southampton, Koeman cant be allowed to put our academy in mothballs.

That is part of our identity. Regardless of how much money we may have in the future to spend on players (IF we do) having kids break through from the club's own teams is essential to retain a feeling of who we are as a club.

The talent is there, Koeman has to be forced to play these youngsters. The owner has to impress that this is who we are as a club, and fans have to get after him over it. His comment post match yesterday in relation to Sims was a disgraceful bit of ignorance. He cant take us down that route - if he does he'll hollow us out into being just another identikit club, indistinguishable from other no mark organisations in this transfer merry-go-round Premier League.

Agree with that to be honest. Moyes, who used to be regularly accused of not giving der yoof a chance, brought through (not necessarily gave debuts to) the Skem Snitch, Hibbert, Rodwell, Barkley, Vaughan, Anichebe, Rooney, all players who made it here or have least gone on to play elsewhere (injuries and motivation permitting).

But now we're looking at ways to give Snivelley and Enner Valencia minutes. Sigh.

 

[davek]

Agree with that to be honest. Moyes, who used to be regularly accused of not giving der yoof a chance, brought through (not necessarily gave debuts to) the Skem Snitch, Hibbert, Rodwell, Barkley, Vaughan, Anichebe, all players who made it here or have least gone on to play elsewhere (injuries and motivation permitting).

But now we're looking at ways to give Snivelley and Enner Valencia minutes. Sigh.

Yes, although Moyes had a well earned reputation of bringing through younger players over years rather than months, he at least dipped into that pool of talent.

 

[Thomasc]

Of course he's not and nor should he yet.

Food for thought though, if Holland came calling for him tomorrow, I'd happily hand the Everton job to Unsworth.

Hard to imagine the owners handing the job to somebody with zero managerial experience for me, no matter how nice the sentiment.

 

[Zatara]

I think the serioius side of this for me is that, though he got away with it at Southampton, Koeman cant be allowed to put our academy in mothballs.

That is part of our identity. Regardless of how much money we may have in the future to spend on players (IF we do) having kids break through from the club's own teams is essential to retain a feeling of who we are as a club.

The talent is there, Koeman has to be forced to play these youngsters. The owner has to impress that this is who we are as a club, and fans have to get after him over it. His comment post match yesterday in relation to Sims was a disgraceful bit of ignorance. He cant take us down that route - if he does he'll hollow us out into being just another identikit club, indistinguishable from other no mark organisations in this transfer merry-go-round Premier League.

The thing is, you cant force Koeman to play the u21s...Moshiri even said koeman does what he wants.

That leads to the real question which is, koeman in or out. If out then how about unsworth who knows these u21s well and what they can do...and knows what we want to watch.

I cant stomach seeing us signing 30+ year old short term.players before koeman is sacked in the next 2 seasons myself.

 

[Zatara]

Agree with that to be honest. Moyes, who used to be regularly accused of not giving der yoof a chance, brought through (not necessarily gave debuts to) the Skem Snitch, Hibbert, Rodwell, Barkley, Vaughan, Anichebe, Rooney, all players who made it here or have least gone on to play elsewhere (injuries and motivation permitting).

But now we're looking at ways to give Snivelley and Enner Valencia minutes. Sigh.

A vote for Koeman is a vote for Cleverley.

 

[davek]

The thing is, you cant force Koeman to play the u21s...Moshiri even said koeman does what he wants.

That leads to the real question which is, koeman in or out. If out then how about unsworth who knows these u21s well and what they can do...and knows what we want to watch.

I cant stomach seeing us signing 30+ year old short term.players before koeman is sacked in the next 2 seasons myself.

As Groucho says: if Holland came for Koeman and he left I'd have no problem with Unsworth getting a short contract to see how it goes.

He would have been a logical choice after Martinez, tbh, because he has spent the last three years honing that system at all levels of the club.

 

[orly]

A vote for Koeman is a vote for Cleverley.

Bit early in the week for such moral dilemmas Zatmeister

 

[orly]

As Groucho says: if Holland came for Koeman and he left I'd have no problem with Unsworth getting a short contract to see how it goes.

He would have been a logical choice after Martinez, tbh, because he has spent the last three years honing that system at all levels of the club.

lol

Dave we didn't need more Martinez, repackaged.

Arguably we don't also need more Moyes, repackaged

 

[Joey66]

I think he should be benched now and brought on when we need to hold onto a result.

looking at our team we need at least two youngsters playing and two on the bench we look slow Dads Army FC - with a manager who stands like a statue on the sidelines he looks like hes give up imo!

 

[Zatara]

As Groucho says: if Holland came for Koeman and he left I'd have no problem with Unsworth getting a short contract to see how it goes.

He would have been a logical choice after Martinez, tbh, because he has spent the last three years honing that system at all levels of the club.

If he went now, it would be fascinating to see Unsworth at the helm on the understanding that he goes back to u23s in the summer...

if he does well then appoint him then.

 

[Zatara]

Bit early in the week for such moral dilemmas Zatmeister

I'll ask you again in 4 games

 

[Papa Shango]

Ok...

Baines: Has been average (at best) for 2 seasons...he looks a poor version of himself now. Who do you play instead of him? Oviedo...or Galloway who was player of the month for us last year before being dropped.

Jags: Hes finished...williams plays on the left so that rules out Mori..Holgate is the only RCB option.

Barry: Gueye needs to perform 3 roles and is playing box to box...gueye needs.to be a DM with another high energy player alongside...thats davies.

Coleman: Poor for 2 seasons...Holgate again was far better there this season.

Alternatively we go 3 at the back with williams in the centre and Holgate/Galloway either side of him.and williams can bellow at them.

Galloway cant get a game for West Brom. Davies has played half games here and there, Holgate has played what, two games?

They all did Ok, well in fact but there is no guarantee that they will come in and do great either.

What if they do come in and struggle? Its not easy to step into a struggling side. I like all the players you mention and agree that the first teamers have been awful but again, its not football manager, you dont just replace 3-4 players in a first team with young lads who have about 5 games between them.

I mean....you can I suppose. But if it all goes wrong what then?

Having them on the bench ready to play would be ideal.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Mate Uniteds team that they started featuring their youth players in had finished 2nd, 1st and 1st the three years prior and was comfortably the best and most consistant team at the time, they would go into games knowing they would win in 3rd gear comfortably, so it was easy to bring in those academy players and get them experience and confidence (which is the key thing), so when the older players moved on they where comfortable playing in a winning side

what your suggesting is more akin to bringing a load of young players into a team that looks a train wreck - more akin to what Villa tried to do and other teams who it went disastrous for. bring in the likes of 2-3 young players consistantly into the team and you could end up absolutely wrecking their development if their initial 5-6 games are heavy losses etc.

The list of young lads you put up mate

Browning is injured still - at least not back playing yet and is 23 by the end of the season
Pennington won't ever be good enough and is already 22
Dowell - not ready right now, and is having by all accounts an inferior season to last year
Galloway - can't get games for West Brom mate - because as a defender he isn't good enough yet, needs to be loaned somweher he will play first

Kenny - i'm a huge fan off, but to start him ahead of coleman would be utter madness
Connely - Not as good a centre back as Holgate, not as good a right back as Kenny is, don't see him really ever breaking into the squad long term - too many players ahead of him
Davies - should be getting games ahead of any of the backup centre mids - looks ready and physically up to the task as well, and is confident as anything
Holgate - looks the part, but was really poor last time he started againjst Norwich unless we change formation - asking him to be part of a centre back pairing will be huge pressure on the lad


In short mate, the young players we have aren't the new Giggs, Beckham, Scholes, Neville

Should some be getting more minutes than they are - maybe so, but to think that they are the magic solution is fooling yourself

Pretty much agree with this. Except Connelly is very two footed and left back has been his primary position both at Everton and England.

What we have is an unusually large group of very good young players, many of who have a good chance of carving out a career at the top level. And by that I mean Premier standard. But none of them are at the level that Rooney or Barkley were at the same age. Or Stones for that matter. Plus, if Everton progress to where we want them to be, I doubt whether more than a couple will be good enough to make it with us.

And you definitely can't compare with the Man Utd kids of 20 years ago. Giggs, Beckham and Scholes were all genuine world class players and you could also argue that, in his position, Gary Neville was too. Plus, you couldn't introduce a group of kids into the ultra competitive Premier league now, like you could in those days. Even then it was a huge gamble by Fergie ffs.

Having said that, it is important for their development that these players do get a taste of first team action. I'd rather see some of them on the bench than the likes of Cleverley, Valencia and even an under performing Geri and Kev. Even games like last week, home to bottom club, Koeman could have given Davies a start but preferred a player who had been out injured for the best part of 3 months.

It's definitely a negative for me that Koeman doesn't appear to trust the youngsters, but to throw them all in together would do them more harm than good.

 

[bluestevon]

But, by saying XYZ isnt playing and would be if they are any good you are saying that the managers opinion is correct.

If that manager never plays u21 players unless he is forced to then almost ZERO youth players would be in the side...

Therefore youre basing the ability of players who should/could be in the side based on the managers opinion.

If a player comes in and is motm but is then dropped...is he not good enough ?

Talking about Holgate mate? If so he wasn't motm last time he played he wa spretty crap against Norwich in fact