Current Affairs The Landmarks of Slavery;

[kenada_blue]

It has no relevance to our society.

As a basic level, a mature conversation will be around things that are relevant to our society.

The statue of Sir Francis Drake for example in Plymouth. It is there because of his numerous exploits, circumnavigating the globe, hugely enriching the state through raiding the Spanish and his role in defending the country against Spanish Invasion.

What we don't also acknowledge as a society is that he was a slave trader. He literally shipped enslaved people from West Africa to the Caribbean.

Now I don't think his statue should come down. However, this important aspect of who he was and our society at the time should be properly taught in schools and accurate context given in appropriate places, for example at museum exhibitions or even on the statue's plinth.

Which is very much the point overall. History taught is generally over glorified and selective. I get why. There's a lot of history to get through lol

In any country history is taught to celebrate how great the country was or became and that's world wide in every country. From a young age that creates a sense of national pride (winning and beating others is good). The problem that can happen is that it can delude individuals on how they interpret it (among other social factors) later in life.

Bottom line is...no one's a saint. Understand that for every good there was bad. Learn. Embrace. Move on.

 

[peteblue]

Diverting food from India to British soldiers and boosting already plentiful European stockpiles was his choice as were the various other policies which contributed to it. It’s a bit hard to believe these were accidents or innocent mistakes/oversights given how racist he was and how little respect he had for India.

BBC - Soutik Biswas's India: How Churchill 'starved' India

I'm Soutik Biswas and I’m the online correspondent for BBC News in India. This blog is my take on life and times in the world’s largest democracy.

www.bbc.co.uk

Churchill’s policies to blame for 1943 Bengal famine: Study

The Bengal famine that is estimated to have killed up to three million people was not caused by drought, new study says.

www.aljazeera.com

Either way, the point was that I’m not sure some statue vandals are on the same level as racists...

The point is that those that vandalise the statue of Churchill suggest that his statue offends people and upsets them, usually on behalf of others who actually don’t give a toss. Meanwhile the other 66 Million of us who may or may not be offended by their actions are supposed to just accept it. Well it’s not on. People vandalising the Cenotaph and this particular statue are assuming that they know best, that their wants override the wants of the rest of the country, without a thought about how their actions offend others, and quite frankly it’s about time this selfish virtue signalling was brought to a halt....

 

[gwladysnight]

Im a big advocate of national service or something similiar for alot of todays youth - anyone who is from a martial arts or military background will testify to discipline/respect being two of the best things you can instill in a person.

Sadly those qualities are lacking in too many in UK society.

Why are squaddie pubs in towns near military bases absolute no-go areas at weekends then ?

When you read stuff like this.

Addiction in the Armed Forces: Getting Help - Rehab Recovery

Members of the Armed Forces are More Likely to Experience Drug and Alcohol Addiction than the Rest of the Population. Here, We Explain How to Get Help.

www.rehab-recovery.co.uk

Addiction in the Armed Forces: Getting Help
Unfortunately, drug and alcohol abuse disproportionately affects members or ex-members of the Armed Forces. This is generally true for all ranks and professions within the Armed Forces, although those who have undertaken combat duties are particularly at risk.

Why would you want to inflict National service on people who don't want to do it.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Im under 30 so I know fully well the types of idiots knocking about these days.

In society you have 2 types of people:

1. Those brought up

2. Those dragged up

Number 1 is fine as they have been taught correct morals and discipline from their parents/family however number 2 are the scum carrying blades / in and out of prison as they care for nothing but themselves.

Thats exactly why you need programs in place for those in number 2 who no doubt a few of those types were involved in the recent violence at the protests.

What category to rich, entitled kids go in that had all the money in the world thrown at them from caring parents but turn into total sociopaths? Asking for a mate

 

[peteblue]

I’m not necessarily advocating mob destruction Although I empathise with it . If you pull it down I understand it but if you get nicked you’ve got to deal with the consequences.

the difficult part of the conversation would surely by why the statue is still there now , still ‘celebrating’ the life of a slaver who it describes as wise and virtuous and frankly the ethnicity of the child in that conversation probably does make a difference .

I have no problem with taking down statues if that’s what the people want. But I cannot accept wanton destruction by the few who assume it’s the will of the many.......

 

[longers]

The point is that those that vandalise the statue of Churchill suggest that his statue offends people and upsets them, usually on behalf of others who actually don’t give a toss. Meanwhile the other 66 Million of us who may or may not be offended by their actions are supposed to just accept it. Well it’s not on. People vandalising the Cenotaph and this particular statue are assuming that they know best, that their wants override the wants of the rest of the country, without a thought about how their actions offend others, and quite frankly it’s about time this selfish virtue signalling was brought to a halt....

im fully aware you’re not down with statue vandalism but claiming that people who vandalise statues (of morally dubious historical figures) are as bad as actual racists is a pretty bad take imo... all be it a bad take that you’re entitled to have

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Why are squaddie pubs in towns near military bases absolute no-go areas at weekends then ?

When you read stuff like this.

Addiction in the Armed Forces: Getting Help - Rehab Recovery

Members of the Armed Forces are More Likely to Experience Drug and Alcohol Addiction than the Rest of the Population. Here, We Explain How to Get Help.

www.rehab-recovery.co.uk

Addiction in the Armed Forces: Getting Help
Unfortunately, drug and alcohol abuse disproportionately affects members or ex-members of the Armed Forces. This is generally true for all ranks and professions within the Armed Forces, although those who have undertaken combat duties are particularly at risk.

Why would you want to inflict National service on people who don't want to do it.

Worked with loads of ex-forces who have hit serious problems. Homelessness, addiction and debt are rife.

 

[gwladysnight]

I have no problem with taking down statues if that’s what the people want. But I cannot accept wanton destruction by the few who assume it’s the will of the many.......

How did you feel about the toppling of the Berlin Wall ?

 

[peteblue]

im fully aware you’re not down with statue vandalism but claiming that people who vandalise statues (of morally dubious people) are as bad as actual racists is a pretty bad take imo... all be it a bad take that you’re entitled to have

Fair enough, but it is still just another form of intolerance that is on display......

 

[mill]

I find it difficult to understand when people are more concerned about vandalism than racism.

 

[dead_soft]

Fair enough, but it is still just another form of intolerance that is on display......

How many statues have you watched get toppled in the UK? Seems a bit much to get worked up over considering it's not happened that much

 

[peteblue]

How did you feel about the toppling of the Berlin Wall ?

I thought it was amazing when I watched it. Like many, I had seen pictures of people who tried to escape East Berlin only to be shot at the attempt. But there is a bit of a difference between what was happening in East Germany and the lives of todays over indulged and over pampered vandals....

 

[peteblue]

I find it difficult to understand when people are more concerned about vandalism than racism.

One leads eventually to the other.....

 

[mill]

One leads eventually to the other.....

Are you saying vandalism leads to racism or the other way around?
Id quite like you to show your working either way.

 

[peteblue]

How many statues have you watched get toppled in the UK? Seems a bit much to get worked up over considering it's not happened that much

A fair point, and like 99.99% of the population I tend not to even notice them. It’s the method of the destruction I find abhorrent......