Current Affairs The Landmarks of Slavery;

[Billy Dean]

We already do. It's literally constant. It was only the other year McDonnell brought up Tonypandy etc.

Coming from McDonnell though. Not many people would care what he has to say I’d wager

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Every election since 2010 and the Brexit vote?

Twitter is an echo chamber for the minority. That has been borne out over and over again. If it wasn't, Brexit gets crushed by 90% of the vote against and Corbyn is now PM with massive landslide victories.

The best thing for the left would be the revival of a centre left SDP type party (who would get my vote).

Labour are finished and will only ever have a sniff based on the Tories handling of the pandemic/ cummings gate & Lib Dems aint up to much either.

 

[Tubey]

I’m talking more this stuff about EDL and other such things this fella has come out with.

He might have a point about the left, but this discussion isn’t really about that.

Just interested where he gets his info from as in spotting a dangerous pattern in his time and the stuff he’s coming out with.

Fair enough, but I think he's just doing as I am - he's seeing patterns, understanding how support manifests, how one action can lead to another.

I think he's been pretty clear he thinks the EDL etc. are disgusting but that doesn't mean he automatically thinks the "other side" aren't.

 

[coollino]

So anyone who disagrees with authoritarian mob violence is supporting racism?

And people wonder why the left in this country is finished lol

I find it weird that you constantly generalise the left when there are probably more fractions in the left than there are the right.

It's like you are getting your views that make sweeping statements for hits, maybe.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

I can definitely assure you I’m not a centrist. Give it a couple more years and you can take off your cloak and admit to being a Tory

You do come across as a radical left type, mate.

 

[Charro]

Fair enough, but I think he's just doing as I am - he's seeing patterns, understanding how support manifests, how one action can lead to another.

I think he's been pretty clear he thinks the EDL etc. are disgusting but that doesn't mean he automatically thinks the "other side" aren't.

I don’t particularly disagree with the viewpoint that people on both sides need to have a word with how they’re behaving.

I don’t think he’s coming out in support of the EDL either, but it’s all very one sided too.

If he can cite me some reliable sources that shape his viewpoint then fair enough, but at the moment it’s pure Facebook stuff, and people need to be challenged and warned about getting their info from that site.

 

[Tubey]

Coming from McDonnell though. Not many people would care what he has to say I’d wager

You'd hope not haha - but it did spark a pretty heated conversation at the time.

Churchill's life and legacy is extremely well known, both the positives and negatives. It just so happens that for the vast majority the positives win out. Call it the "benefit of the doubt".

You'd be hard pressed to find a public/venerated figure that was flawless. Mother Teresa is hugely controversial for example. Ghandi too. Christopher Columbus etc. etc.

Then you have someone like Robert E. Lee, who was a respected figure in his time but was on the losing side of history. A lot of good, a lot of bad, but no denying his historical importance.

But it comes back to the central question - for all of these people, what does pulling down a statue achieve? For me, it's nothing but superficial achievement for those who want to "topple the racists"... from hundreds of years ago, often when the concept of racism was barely even a thing, instead of toppling the racists now.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Serious question here mate, and I think it’ll help people try to understand the points you’re trying to make.

Where do you get your sources of information from?

Its not a secret that Labour just got wiped out. Nor that Farage connected with the Northern 'working class'.

 

[Tubey]

I don’t particularly disagree with the viewpoint that people on both sides need to have a word with how they’re behaving.

I don’t think he’s coming out in support of the EDL either, but it’s all very one sided too.

If he can cite me some reliable sources that shape his viewpoint then fair enough, but at the moment it’s pure Facebook stuff, and people need to be challenged and warned about getting their info from that site.

Will only speak for myself, but if the criticism is one-sided currently against BLM, it's because of frustration that events are giving ammo to the far right to rise in opposition to what should have been a unaniminous and unambiguous cause, we're you'd instantly look like a right mammary gland for opposing it.

The more BLM affiliated people pull down statues and threaten Churchill etc., the more it enables the Tommy Robinsons' of this world to have the semblance of a reasonable view against them.

 

[The binman chronicles]

But it comes back to the central question - for all of these people, what does pulling down a statue achieve? For me, it's nothing but superficial achievement for those who want to "topple the racists"... from hundreds of years ago, often when the concept of racism was barely even a thing, instead of toppling the racists now.

I would hazard a guess that some who were there couldn't give a rat's ass about the cause and just wanted to be on TV and cause mayhem after going stir crazy for 3 months in the house.

 

[Charro]

Will only speak for myself, but if the criticism is one-sided currently against BLM, it's because of frustration that events are giving ammo to the far right to rise in opposition to what should have been a unaniminous and unambiguous cause, we're you'd instantly look like a right mammary gland for opposing it.

The more BLM affiliated people pull down statues and threaten Churchill etc., the more it enables the Tommy Robinsons' of this world to have the semblance of a reasonable view against them.

They’d have a go regardless.

But, yeah, as with anything it always goes to far and the debate gets lost.

I agree with that sentiment, but getting the army on the streets, race riots between the EDL and the far left, where is this coming from?

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Not sure how you’d pull a pyramid down to be honest. Be more of a disassemble. Not quite as dramatic and good luck throwing it in a river. I’m all for it tbh

 

[ForeverBlue92]

You'd hope not haha - but it did spark a pretty heated conversation at the time.

Churchill's life and legacy is extremely well known, both the positives and negatives. It just so happens that for the vast majority the positives win out. Call it the "benefit of the doubt".

You'd be hard pressed to find a public/venerated figure that was flawless. Mother Teresa is hugely controversial for example. Ghandi too. Christopher Columbus etc. etc.

Then you have someone like Robert E. Lee, who was a respected figure in his time but was on the losing side of history. A lot of good, a lot of bad, but no denying his historical importance.

But it comes back to the central question - for all of these people, what does pulling down a statue achieve? For me, it's nothing but superficial achievement for those who want to "topple the racists"... from hundreds of years ago, often when the concept of racism was barely even a thing, instead of toppling the racists now.

Thats where they dont realise they are being brainwashed.

If they were truly fighting for equality - why not take on the elite who are currently doing the oppressing?

Maybe because the elite who are pulling the strings have conned them into not realising that all this rubbish / mob hand will do nothing but fracture their support and inevitably lead to clashes with the right therefore the message is lost and nothing changes.

 

[dead_soft]

You do come across as a radical left type, mate.

You have definitely not met many radical leftists if you think I am.

 

[dead_soft]

And knee-jerk revisionism will just move the problem further down the line for future generations to riot over - a very, very delicate balance is required here in a very challenging time.

this isn’t knee jerk revisionism. Just because you’ve not been aware of it before doesn’t mean the arguments haven’t been there