People nowadays are also too quick to be on the defence.
Current Affairs The Landmarks of Slavery;
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People nowadays are also too quick to be on the defence.
dead_soft
Player Valuation: £35m
where did I say 1?
2. These are people who have been protesting the statue of Rhodes for years, many of them with backing of their degrees and postgrads in history from Oxford but maybe they don’t know their history
dead_soft
Player Valuation: £35m
not being defensive, just asking for clarification
Kenshin commented "How dare I offer a different opinion on a matter"
I bold this point with "People now are so used to aggressively censoring/removing the platform of anyone they disagree with"
dead_soft
Player Valuation: £35m
Yeah, I just didn't think my comment had said he couldn't have his opinion or that I'd tried to censor or remove him so wasn't sure how it linked.
Tipp blue
If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong.
People are also quick to go onto social media and search through years of posts to find something offensive somebody said 10 years ago when they were about 12, to bring them down now. This whole thing smacks of people's inability to deal with something they don't like so want rid of it, out of sight out of mind.
Kenshin
Player Valuation: £40m
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You assume I celebrate the past by simply talking about it. Which therefore suggests I offer an opposing argument that would put the events of the past in a positive light , ie, celebrating.
As for the second point. Again you don't understand what I am saying. Yes people at Oxford who are far more intelligent than me may have opposed the statue. However I bet you those aren't part of the thousands protesting now demanding for it's removal. Those thousands are protesting it because they have been told to oppose it. In fact I would go as far to say many of them wouldn't even know who that was or what his history was until recently.
Does that make it right to protest against it still?
And where does it stop? I am sure if you delve into the history of this country you will find far more (in the plural sense, not gravity sense) evil things have occured that we have landmarks or names relating to them. How much of it do you want removed?
And finally , what then? Rename every street , remove every statue , build great big museums everywhere to educate people. Doesn't remove the issues with racism in the present.
Most people will disagree with this statement so I will word it carefully.
What if , the focus on the past is wrong. The people protest racism they caused in the present and their answer is to scrub the past.
Does that seem a logical way of thinking?
You assume I celebrate the past by simply talking about it. Which therefore suggests I offer an opposing argument that would put the events of the past in a positive light , ie, celebrating.
As for the second point. Again you don't understand what I am saying. Yes people at Oxford who are far more intelligent than me may have opposed the statue. However I bet you those aren't part of the thousands protesting now demanding for it's removal. Those thousands are protesting it because they have been told to oppose it. In fact I would go as far to say many of them wouldn't even know who that was or what his history was until recently.
Does that make it right to protest against it still?
And where does it stop? I am sure if you delve into the history of this country you will find far more (in the plural sense, not gravity sense) evil things have occured that we have landmarks or names relating to them. How much of it do you want removed?
And finally , what then? Rename every street , remove every statue , build great big museums everywhere to educate people. Doesn't remove the issues with racism in the present.
Most people will disagree with this statement so I will word it carefully.
What if , the focus on the past is wrong. The people protest racism they caused in the present and their answer is to scrub the past.
Does that seem a logical way of thinking?
I agree with this. The statue of Colson, among many others, was put up, in part, to push what was for many a socially acceptable and perhaps admired narrative of the time.
That time has long since passed and the frequent removal, relocation and replacement of statues is something that shouldn't be out of question. Berlin for example is able to confront it's recent past and educate without featuring monuments of Nazism in it's public places - but there's no way you could go there and not be aware of what happened.
It does seem ridiculous. I get the idea. Remove a film temporarily given the obvious racial stereotypes at a time when racism is being discussed. I can see why
but it’s too close to actual censorship, irrespective to whether it’s going to be put back on. I know it’s one company and I know it’s no the same as censorship but there are surely better ways to address it.
This isn’t the same as a statue commemorating someone, it’s something that is of it’s time. Don’t remove it, give context.
rewatch friends ffs. There are lots of questionable writing in that programme. Is it completely appropriate nowadays? No. Should it be removed. No.
As I say, it’s not the same as commemorating someone with a questionable past, especially a past that is difficult for alot of people to be reminded of on a regular basis. Those people should be confined history books. there are plenty of things to celebrate in this country that are more inclusive.
I think the context point is well made, and think I also agree that in order to avoid the slippery slope fallacy, there has to be a line to draw in order to avoid all statues more than a couple hundred years old coming down, as pretty much no-one from that era will come out well against today’s moral standards (as we won’t, in another 200 years).
I felt no emotion whatsoever about Colston’s statue coming down, having never heard of the guy, and still don’t, having read up about him.
But I think there’s also an important context around the circumstances of Colson’s statue coming down. It happened in a moment of high emotion, in the midst of widespread international protesting, and with the added history of Bristolians trying for a while to get his murky past recognised on the plaque, but those peaceful and democratic efforts having gone in vain. That, in itself, is history.
It’s an interesting thread, due to the complexity and context specifics. Maybe in the future Bristol will erect another statue to Colson of him founding a hospital with one hand, while branding a slave with the other.
dead_soft
Player Valuation: £35m
I meant as a population we stop celebrating. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I wasn't trying to suggest you celebrate sale traders.
They are definitely on that protest. It's quite circular logic to say that the knowledgable people can't be on the protest because people on the protest can't be knowledgable. I really doubt the many who have been protesting Rhodes for years (Rhodes Must Fall has been going since 2015) at Universities aren't knowledgable about Rhodes.
The argument is not to scrub the past, the argument is to look at the past, challenge pre conceived notions of what a 'great' Briton is, and to remove statues celebrating those we no longer believe live up to the idea of what we want a 21st Century to be. Nations and identities are constantly evolving, and this is part of that.
The binman chronicles
Player Valuation: £80m
To all those that totally agree with these actions to remove such things, how does it help? Where are the tangible benefits that stop racism seeing most people of sound mind and body know that the views and actions of people 40 years are not in keeping with today's values nevermind these people who lived hundreds of years ago.
Tipp blue
If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong.
It's a well known fact that Nike used sweat shops and child labor in far east countries to make products certainly as recently as 2018 paying poverty wages in Bangladesh basically modern day slavery with like a penny a day thrown in so they can say look they are employed. So I have 2 questions.
1. would we not be better off using our energy to stop modern slavery rather than arguing over the past that nothing can be done about.
2. Hands up who had an Everton Jersey make by Nike a few years ago?
I did just had a look made in Thailand which is one of the countries in this article, it would appear that Everton and likely every PL club have profited from slave labour right everyone down to Finch farm and goodison let's rip them down.
www.newidea.com.au
1. would we not be better off using our energy to stop modern slavery rather than arguing over the past that nothing can be done about.
2. Hands up who had an Everton Jersey make by Nike a few years ago?
I did just had a look made in Thailand which is one of the countries in this article, it would appear that Everton and likely every PL club have profited from slave labour right everyone down to Finch farm and goodison let's rip them down.
Nike sweatshops: inside the scandal
Their brand celebrates humanity and all its potential, but Nike has a history of treating its workers as if they were not human at all. In 1991, American labour activist Jeffrey Ballinger published a report on Nike’s factory practices in Indonesia, exposing below-minimum wages, child labour and...
www.newidea.com.au
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
I'm not. They can tear down every slaver, racist and warmonger statue and I;ll be there to lend a hand (when this virus is under control).
I just dont see how the whole of western culture (built on some form of exploitation or other) can be exorcised like this.
Capitalism at its peak, and now at its nadir, is fuelled by it. We cant live in a vaccum outside that. Every aspect of yours or my life each and every day will have exploitation at its foundation.
ForeverBlue92
Player Valuation: £80m
Its thuggery plain and simple.
I hope the Govt gives the green light for the old bill to pepper spray every oink causing bother over the weekend.
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