Current Affairs The Landmarks of Slavery;

[Billy Dean]

It's a well known fact that Nike used sweat shops and child labor in far east countries to make products certainly as recently as 2018 paying poverty wages in Bangladesh basically modern day slavery with like a penny a day thrown in so they can say look they are employed. So I have 2 questions.
1. would we not be better off using our energy to stop modern slavery rather than arguing over the past that nothing can be done about.
2. Hands up who had an Everton Jersey make by Nike a few years ago?
I did just had a look made in Thailand which is one of the countries in this article, it would appear that Everton and likely every PL club have profited from slave labour right everyone down to Finch farm and goodison let's rip them down.

Nike sweatshops: inside the scandal

Their brand celebrates humanity and all its potential, but Nike has a history of treating its workers as if they were not human at all. In 1991, American labour activist Jeffrey Ballinger published a report on Nike’s factory practices in Indonesia, exposing below-minimum wages, child labour and...

www.newidea.com.au

why not do both?

 

[Tipp blue]

why not do both?

We could do both, but one of them should be a more pressing concern than the other, but at the moment we have it backwards.

 

[dead_soft]

We could do both, but one of them should be a more pressing concern than the other, but at the moment we have it backwards.

who’s ‘we’? When the football is on do you decry that people are putting their effort in to that rather than challenging modern slavery?

 

[Lanolin]

I didn't say you said that.

There isn't a set line, and there doesn't have to be. These things are part of a changing conversation that happens, and that's okay. They'd already got to that point with Colston, through democratic means.

We've expanded the discussion beyond Colston though. Your point was that we should bring down statues of those who are no longer seen to be in line with our values. In order to do that, yes, there does have to be a line; otherwise how can we possibly do it?

 

[Alan Whittle]

I'm saying it should be saved like all history.

The trouble with history is that you never know what will happen tomorrow.

 

[Shevin Keedy]

Well there is a pretty interesting statue graveyard just outside of Vilnius called Grutas Park. Its actually a tourist attraction...

I believe there is a statue commemorating Frank Zappa in Vilnius is there not?

 

[Tipp blue]

who’s ‘we’? When the football is on do you decry that people are putting their effort in to that rather than challenging modern slavery?

I could ask you a similar question, when the football is on do you still call for statues of slave traders to be pulled down or is that something you started to take an interest in less than a week ago? And before you ask yes I have always maintained that relics of the past need to be preserved.
What can we do to stop modern day slavery? With my limited financial means likely not much, what I can do is google a list of companies that use this kind of labor and not buy from these companies any more. Ya know what I will do that, you going to join me? I'm 100% serious on this I will not buy clothing or items from any companies mentioned here.

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[dead_soft]

We've expanded the discussion beyond Colston though. Your point was that we should bring down statues of those who are no longer seen to be in line with our values. In order to do that, yes, there does have to be a line; otherwise how can we possibly do it?

Because we don't do that with much of what happens in this country. We don't draw set lines and then everything must conform on one side or the other. In the same way we didn't have a line that said 'these 50 people get a statue, these people don't'. These things happen fluidly over time.

 

[Tipp blue]

who’s ‘we’? When the football is on do you decry that people are putting their effort in to that rather than challenging modern slavery?

The start of my list for boycott I can live without any of these. Adidas, Nike, Abercrombie & Fitch, Forever 21, Wal-Mart, Old Navy, Tommy Hilfiger, Ralph Lauren, H&M, Converse, Hollister

 

[dead_soft]

I could ask you a similar question, when the football is on do you still call for statues of slave traders to be pulled down or is that something you started to take an interest in less than a week ago? And before you ask yes I have always maintained that relics of the past need to be preserved.
What can we do to stop modern day slavery? With my limited financial means likely not much, what I can do is google a list of companies that use this kind of labor and not buy from these companies any more. Ya know what I will do that, you going to join me? I'm 100% serious on this I will not buy clothing or items from any companies mentioned here.

Sign in - Google Accounts

sites.google.com

It's not me saying that people should concentrate on one thing over the other.
Is it a problem if people have only thought about this issue this week? What's the amount of time they should be thinking?

Yep, very good to not buy from those companies, I already do my best to - friendly with a couple of people involved in anti modern day slavery through the Labour Party so they keep it quite visible to us. Really great to see you doing this - it's the small things we can do that can have a big difference with collective power so all power to you

 

[Tipp blue]

It's not me saying that people should concentrate on one thing over the other.
Is it a problem if people have only thought about this issue this week? What's the amount of time they should be thinking?

Yep, very good to not buy from those companies, I already do my best to - friendly with a couple of people involved in anti modern day slavery through the Labour Party so they keep it quite visible to us. Really great to see you doing this - it's the small things we can do that can have a big difference with collective power so all power to you

Finally we agree on something.

 

[Lanolin]

Because we don't do that with much of what happens in this country. We don't draw set lines and then everything must conform on one side or the other. In the same way we didn't have a line that said 'these 50 people get a statue, these people don't'. These things happen fluidly over time.

That's really not a valid comparison at all. We're not talking about how things might change in future, I'm saying right now, how do we decide what comes down and what doesn't? Can we say that what Colston or Milligan did is unquestionably worse than what Churchill and Cromwell did? If no then using your logic their statues need to come down, if yes then we've drawn a line. One which you said we couldn't draw.

You've basically made a point which - as I said originally - makes sense and I agree with in theory; but is completely impractical in reality. I don't think we should have statues to slavers up, it's not something I actually want to see, I'm just talking about looking at it as a whole, and where the road would eventually lead if we apply this line of thinking.

 

[davek]

I had this conversation with someone the other week as we were talking about female representation in rock etc. How there are very few female artists in the genre and a lack of space.
The whole thing is very much through the male gaze and we were talking about music that we love but has some questionable lyrics.
I spoke about brown sugar (and money for nothing).
It’s something I’ve not really made my mind up about yet. Can you compartmentalise the art from the artist.
Same with Eminem or NWA etc. Extremely questionable lyrics but is it possible to appreciate the art even if it’s against your value system.
I’m not sure what side I’ve come down on yet to be honest.

by the way I’m not saying it should be censored. More my view on whether I’d want to listen to it/give money to the artist etc.

These songs/tv shows etc are being viewed ahistorically.

We'd obviously look sideways at them being written now, but they are of their time.

Obvioulsy we then have to seperate what comes to us from the past from what is repulsive to just questionable attitude to gender/race etc. But we also (as with the Lennon song quoted) have to see the perspective and target they seek to hit.

It sounds complex, but it really isn't. It's just common sense...sadly in short supply with a few people it seems.

 

[dead_soft]

That's really not a valid comparison at all. We're not talking about how things might change in future, I'm saying right now, how do we decide what comes down and what doesn't? Can we say that what Colston or Milligan did is unquestionably worse than what Churchill and Cromwell did? If no then using your logic their statues need to come down, if yes then we've drawn a line. One which you said we couldn't draw.

You've basically made a point which - as I said originally - makes sense and I agree with in theory; but is completely impractical in reality. I don't think we should have statues to slavers up, it's not something I actually want to see, I'm just talking about looking at it as a whole, and where the road would eventually lead if we apply this line of thinking.

Personally I'd be happy for Churchill and certainly Cromwell to go but that is another argument.

I can draw a personal line and I can say which statues It's something which will happen through a combination of protest, direct action, and the legislature. It's already happening that way, hence the removal of the Milligan statue.

 

[Lanolin]

Personally I'd be happy for Churchill and certainly Cromwell to go but that is another argument.

I can draw a personal line and I can say which statues It's something which will happen through a combination of protest, direct action, and the legislature. It's already happening that way, hence the removal of the Milligan statue.

It isn't another argument though?. It's literally the exact same argument. You said statues of people who don't meet our expectations of how things should be in the 21st century, that has to include all people, not just people involved in slavery. Otherwise you've drawn a line again.