Papa Shango
Player Valuation: £70m
Well there is a pretty interesting statue graveyard just outside of Vilnius called Grutas Park. Its actually a tourist attraction...
Current Affairs The Landmarks of Slavery;
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Well there is a pretty interesting statue graveyard just outside of Vilnius called Grutas Park. Its actually a tourist attraction...
Tipp blue
If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong.
The memorial’s inscription read that it was “erected by citizens of Bristol as a memorial of one of the most virtuous and wise sons of their city AD 1895”. Not what you would say about him now applying 2020 morals to his actions, but that right there is the reason the statue was erected. There is no denying the fact that the man did good things for the city, and people wanted to remember him for that.. you seem intent on applying modern standards to people of the past and that is one of the most illogical things a person could do, because you'll end up at the conclusion that pretty much everything over 100 years old needs to be destroyed.
So much to unpack in this thread... lol
This week has been a real eye opener to see that there are people that will put more energy into leaping to the defense of the statues of 18th century slave traders than they would to defend the rights of people with darker skin pigment than them. Very telling.
A big one is the argument surrounding 'education' i.e. leave the statues up for people to learn about who these people are.
We have a very strange relationship with education here in the UK in regards to the darker parts of our history. I can't speak for today's curriculum, but I know large swathes of our past were completely overlooked in my school history lessons.
The British Empire was built on the bodies of the indigenous people we massacred to 'spread civilisation' and funded by the resources we looted from those countries and the local people who were sold into slavery.
I mean, it's a pretty big thing to overlook, isn't it?
I'd like to think we are going some way to rectify that. Here in Liverpool especially. I mean the whole city was practically built on the vast riches that the slave trade brought in. The International Slavery Museum is a fantastic resource for learning and I urge anyone who hasn't been before, to do so if you get the opportunity (When the place opens back up obviously)
If you really believe leaving these statues and effigies as a tool for learning, I think this is a far more appropriate setting for them.
Maybe replace the plinths with statues of the people who fought hard to end slavery. The educational value remains, we don't shy away from our past, but instead use it to highlight those that sought to change it rather than glorify those who profited from it.
This week has been a real eye opener to see that there are people that will put more energy into leaping to the defense of the statues of 18th century slave traders than they would to defend the rights of people with darker skin pigment than them. Very telling.
A big one is the argument surrounding 'education' i.e. leave the statues up for people to learn about who these people are.
We have a very strange relationship with education here in the UK in regards to the darker parts of our history. I can't speak for today's curriculum, but I know large swathes of our past were completely overlooked in my school history lessons.
The British Empire was built on the bodies of the indigenous people we massacred to 'spread civilisation' and funded by the resources we looted from those countries and the local people who were sold into slavery.
I mean, it's a pretty big thing to overlook, isn't it?
I'd like to think we are going some way to rectify that. Here in Liverpool especially. I mean the whole city was practically built on the vast riches that the slave trade brought in. The International Slavery Museum is a fantastic resource for learning and I urge anyone who hasn't been before, to do so if you get the opportunity (When the place opens back up obviously)
If you really believe leaving these statues and effigies as a tool for learning, I think this is a far more appropriate setting for them.
Maybe replace the plinths with statues of the people who fought hard to end slavery. The educational value remains, we don't shy away from our past, but instead use it to highlight those that sought to change it rather than glorify those who profited from it.
dead_soft
Player Valuation: £35m
I hate this argument, 'the morals of the past', as if everyone in 'the past' was lashing up slaves. Morals and the way things do change over time, but it's entirely possible that they made the wrong decision 100 years ago and it's being corrected now.
Like who mate? Any suggestions?
Tipp blue
If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong.
Not just white people saying leave the statues up.. I 100% agree with Sir Geoff Palmer on this.
Sir Geoff Palmer: Scotland's first black professor on overcoming racism, demolishing statues and the Highland Clearances
Scotland’s historical links to slavery should be taught to school children, according to the country’s first black professor. Professor Sir Geoff Palmer
www.pressandjournal.co.uk
I didn’t have you down as “you get arrested for putting up an England flag these days” type Dave
William Wilberforce - Wikipedia
He does already have a statue in Hull for the record. But one of the many people who fought for the abolition of slavery.
Although, in the spirit of things, maybe notable ex-slaves who also fought against the slave trade. I'll be honest and say that's something I am still learning about myself!
William Wilberforce - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
He does already have a statue in Hull for the record. But one of the many people who fought for the abolition of slavery.
Although, in the spirit of things, maybe notable ex-slaves who also fought against the slave trade. I'll be honest and say that's something I am still learning about myself!
He's white and was always hugely privileged.
Anyone who is black?
What a ridiculously outrageous statement that is to make.
Completely misses the point.
Just because I care about the preservation of history and don't support the proliferation of anarchy does not mean I don't care about racism. One doesn't equate to the other and you really should reconsider whether you should have posted that.
Tipp blue
If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong.
Yes mistakes were made in the past, and we need to remember these mistakes, and not just form the opinion that we don't like that anymore get rid of it.
I'm talking about the swathes of people descending on the statues to defend them, who wouldn't lift a finger to support the anti-racism protests.
It's not outrageous - it's the truth.
dead_soft
Player Valuation: £35m
Ignatius Sancho
Kenshin
Player Valuation: £40m
As unpopular as it seems to be to most people.
21st century humans are judging history from hundreds of years ago with the same standard as it is today and finding offence.
The problem is not history , it's people today. They can't grasp that things were different in the past and as such, want to write a different narrative without considering all the facts.
We can educate and learn from it but by changing it , we are in danger of forgetting our roots for a new manufactured one influenced by people who can't grasp the reality of it.
Perhaps people should educate themselves beyond Google and Facebook posts and embrace history whilst understanding why it may not all be great. We can't change the past , after all, just being English attributes us to some horrendous crimes.
21st century humans are judging history from hundreds of years ago with the same standard as it is today and finding offence.
The problem is not history , it's people today. They can't grasp that things were different in the past and as such, want to write a different narrative without considering all the facts.
We can educate and learn from it but by changing it , we are in danger of forgetting our roots for a new manufactured one influenced by people who can't grasp the reality of it.
Perhaps people should educate themselves beyond Google and Facebook posts and embrace history whilst understanding why it may not all be great. We can't change the past , after all, just being English attributes us to some horrendous crimes.
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