Current Affairs The Labour Party

[orly]

Maybe you have uncovered a Dave multi my Friend lol

That one is almost beyond parody.

 

[ashwuk76]

That one is almost beyond parody.

Ha ha true. But to be fair Dave doesn't need to hide behind a multi. He's not exactly backwards at coming forwards!

 

[orly]

Ha ha true. But to be fair Dave doesn't need to hide behind a multi. He's not exactly backwards at coming forwards!

He'd also - and he's pushed the envelope a number of times, the maestro- not ever typed anything quite as loony as blaming Tom Watson for parachuting a McClusky staffer into Liverpool Walton

 

[ashwuk76]

Supporting the removal of tuition fees is actually hugely regressive. Currently students pay back their loan, but only once they are earning a high wage as a result of their degree. If we scrap them then the graduates would pay back nothing extra regardless of how wealthy they become with aid of a degree.

I've got all that debt but don't earn enough yet to pay anything back. But if/when I do earn over the threshold then I feel it's right I start paying back as lots don't have the privilege of going to university. Why should hard working people who didn't go pay for my privilege?

Free at point of use, but you pay back when you've clearly benefitted financially from your education. IMO this is as close to fair as we'll get. So much myth and bollocks said around this issue tho.

It depends on what the threshold for paying it back is set at really. I have a degree and went to uni and I agree I should pay it back when I can afford to do so.
The problem is too fold imo. The fees set currently I think are way too high and in a way prohibitive to people going to uni as it saddles someone with far higher debt than I certainly have.
Secondly he threshold have I have mentioned. Mine is currently 28k a year before I pay it back, yes I am that old, however I think and correct me if I'm wrong isn't it set these days at around 18k? That's just far too low in my opinion and not much more than minimum wage.

So taking both points above they both need to change imo.

Also when you factor in brexit student numbers could drop, my partner works in a uni and it's something they are trying to plan for.

 

[ToffeeTim]

It depends on what the threshold for paying it back is set at really. I have a degree and went to uni and I agree I should pay it back when I can afford to do so.
The problem is too fold imo. The fees set currently I think are way too high and in a way prohibitive to people going to uni as it saddles someone with far higher debt than I certainly have.
Secondly he threshold have I have mentioned. Mine is currently 28k a year before I pay it back, yes I am that old, however I think and correct me if I'm wrong isn't it set these days at around 18k? That's just far too low in my opinion and not much more than minimum wage.

So taking both points above they both need to change imo.

Also when you factor in brexit student numbers could drop, my partner works in a uni and it's something they are trying to plan for.

Current threshold for this tax year is 17.8k. Just slightly more than I earn thankfully lol

It shouldn't be prohibitive in any way tho. You don't pay one penny in tuition fees. It's simply loaned from the student loans company to the uni. You never eve see it. And its fake debt as it's written off after 25 years. Hardly anyone at current 9k levels will pay it all back. It's only 9% of earnings over the threshold too. Not tiny, but far from unreasonable. Uni is free to all at point of use. Anyone who says they are priced out of uni, no offence to them, but they are deluded. How can you be priced out of something which is free for goodness sake.

We can't afford to scrap the fees. It would need crazy amounts of money to be either taken as tax from low earners, or moved from other services. Neither is acceptable.

 

[peteblue]

26% v 12.5%

That's a massive difference. I work in the tax industry and I'd be almost certain than almost every business in NI will go south of the border. Every big UK company will restructure and set up their main trading company in Ireland. For some companies, this will hit them for tens of millions of tax, so they will get round it. Punishing business is what makes me not want to support labour. Businessmen and entrepreneurs are not evil. They fund our livelihoods.

Yes, but it isn't going to happen though......

 

[tsubaki]

Supporting the removal of tuition fees is actually hugely regressive. Currently students pay back their loan, but only once they are earning a high wage as a result of their degree. If we scrap them then the graduates would pay back nothing extra regardless of how wealthy they become with aid of a degree.

I've got all that debt but don't earn enough yet to pay anything back. But if/when I do earn over the threshold then I feel it's right I start paying back as lots don't have the privilege of going to university. Why should hard working people who didn't go pay for my privilege?

Free at point of use, but you pay back when you've clearly benefitted financially from your education. IMO this is as close to fair as we'll get. So much myth and bollocks said around this issue tho.

It isn't regressive, or at least no more regressive as what we have now - where people who did receive free university education (and at a time when there was much less competition from other graduates) don't pay it back or pay more tax. Current graduates are hugely disadvantaged.

If you are talking about being fair, then the only way of doing it is a graduate tax for every graduate.

 

[tsubaki]

Oh come on, this is Dave in the Everton forum levels of game here surely to God

Ok then, go find another Corbyn supporter who has gotten into a safe Labour seat.

 

[orly]

Ok then, go find another Corbyn supporter who has gotten into a safe Labour seat.

Because it's comparable with a 30 year old staffer getting the safest seat in the country, who just so happened to work for Jezza's biggest backer.

Come on, you know what you're saying here about Watson is total nonsense. Surely to god.

 

[ashwuk76]

Current threshold for this tax year is 17.8k. Just slightly more than I earn thankfully lol

It shouldn't be prohibitive in any way tho. You don't pay one penny in tuition fees. It's simply loaned from the student loans company to the uni. You never eve see it. And its fake debt as it's written off after 25 years. Hardly anyone at current 9k levels will pay it all back. It's only 9% of earnings over the threshold too. Not tiny, but far from unreasonable. Uni is free to all at point of use. Anyone who says they are priced out of uni, no offence to them, but they are deluded. How can you be priced out of something which is free for goodness sake.

We can't afford to scrap the fees. It would need crazy amounts of money to be either taken as tax from low earners, or moved from other services. Neither is acceptable.

Ah so I wasn't far off with the 18k threshold. 25 years written off? That's different to mine as well. But you would expect most people to earn about the current 17.8k at some point and shouldn't take long so they will pay it back. You say it's fake debt? Could not disagree more. Is that like fake news? A 3 year course saddles someone with 27k debt four year course 36k. As I said most people at some point will earn that within a few years of finishing uni. 9 percent over the earnings that's about 2.5k a year to pay back or about 200 a month. Doesn't sound a lot but when you consider they will have personal debt and will be trying to set up home etc. That's a hell of a lot of money to come out of wages.

Which is why I'd argue the threshold needs to be increased before paying back. As they are more likely to get people to pay it back as they will be motivated to earn more.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Ah so I wasn't far off with the 18k threshold. 25 years written off? That's different to mine as well. But you would expect most people to earn about the current 17.8k at some point and shouldn't take long so they will pay it back. You say it's fake debt? Could not disagree more. Is that like fake news? A 3 year course saddles someone with 27k debt four year course 36k. As I said most people at some point will earn that within a few years of finishing uni. 9 percent over the earnings that's about 2.5k a year to pay back or about 200 a month. Doesn't sound a lot but when you consider they will have personal debt and will be trying to set up home etc. That's a hell of a lot of money to come out of wages.

Which is why I'd argue the threshold needs to be increased before paying back. As they are more likely to get people to pay it back as they will be motivated to earn more.

To pay back 2.5k in student loan in a year you'd need to be earning approx £45.5k per annum. You'd need to be earning another 27,778 (27,778 x 9% = 2,500) over the 17,800 threshold to be liable for 2.5k in a year. That's a fair wedge and that doesn't seem unreasonable to me at all.

 

[tsubaki]

Because it's comparable with a 30 year old staffer getting the safest seat in the country, who just so happened to work for Jezza's biggest backer.

Come on, you know what you're saying here about Watson is total nonsense. Surely to god.

Corbyn has so far got one possible supporter into the thirteen Labour seats that have been up for re-election, and even that might have been more down to local support than the leader's influence. Watson has had far more success than Corbyn has, which means its very unlikely that he didn't either do this himself or acquiesce in it.

As for nonsense, lets not forget its not that long ago that you were agreeing with one of ToffeeTim's made-up claims about hard left elements trying to get rid of Kate Hoey; hard-left elements that turned out to be Peter Mandelson.

 

[ashwuk76]

To pay back 2.5k in student loan in a year you'd need to be earning approx £45.5k per annum. You'd need to be earning another 27,778 (27,778 x 9% = 2,500) over the 17,800 threshold to be liable for 2.5k in a year. That's a fair wedge and that doesn't seem unreasonable to me at all.

Ah I see so for every 1k of earnings over the 17.8k you would be liable for 90 pound a year. I guess that really isn't too bad at all. My threshold increases every year with inflation. And it written off when I'm 65. But to be far if I was earning over the threshold of happily pay it back.

 

[ashwuk76]

He'd also - and he's pushed the envelope a number of times, the maestro- not ever typed anything quite as loony as blaming Tom Watson for parachuting a McClusky staffer into Liverpool Walton

Would you @davek ??

 

[orly]

Corbyn has so far got one possible supporter into the thirteen Labour seats that have been up for re-election, and even that might have been more down to local support than the leader's influence. Watson has had far more success than Corbyn has, which means its very unlikely that he didn't either do this himself or acquiesce in it.

As for nonsense, lets not forget its not that long ago that you were agreeing with one of ToffeeTim's made-up claims about hard left elements trying to get rid of Kate Hoey; hard-left elements that turned out to be Peter Mandelson.

Didn't do anything of the sort re. your final paragraph, as anyone who clicks through these tediously smug embedded links you keep using will see.

Only someone at the most deranged would see this Walton parachute as anything other than Corbyn et al. doing one of there biggest supporters a favour.

But then, you did accuse another Everton supporter of being a S*n reader, so you're probably capable of anything.