Current Affairs The Labour Party

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dead_soft said:
What a trade. Swap thousands of active party members and voters, some who have been members for decades, for one potential future vote.
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Thousands of voters who have turned hundreds of thousands to the Tories in recent years.

Genuinely ask yourself why the Tories are untouchable in recent years.
 
ForeverBlue92 said:
Thousands of voters who have turned hundreds of thousands to the Tories in recent years.

Genuinely ask yourself why the Tories are untouchable in recent years.
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No one is voting Tory over Labour because Geoff in the Sunderland Labour Party wants nationalised rail.

The answer to the public not voting for your party isn’t to make your party more like the other one.
 
PaulPowersTash said:
So what is the answer for Labour? (genuine question)
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Competence.

The simple, unavoidable fact is that Labour’s current leadership (the people around Starmer) are useless at politics. They were useless during Miliband’s time, got absolutely smashed (twice) by a seventy year old man whose hobbies involve his allotment and studying drain covers, failed to unseat him despite having a majority of PLP support in five years and who are failing yet again now.

No amount of policy changes, focus groups or great speeches by Starmer will ever change that fact. That they are now looking to purge the party - as a reaction to them winning a by election - should tell you everything; they are only concerned with keeping their jobs and not the long term health of the party, electoral success or anything noble.

They are a shower. Replacing them should - must - be the top priority.
 
It's over now, just let them go...
tsubaki said:
Competence.

The simple, unavoidable fact is that Labour’s current leadership (the people around Starmer) are useless at politics. They were useless during Miliband’s time, got absolutely smashed (twice) by a seventy year old man whose hobbies involve his allotment and studying drain covers, failed to unseat him despite having a majority of PLP support in five years and who are failing yet again now.

No amount of policy changes, focus groups or great speeches by Starmer will ever change that fact. That they are now looking to purge the party - as a reaction to them winning a by election - should tell you everything; they are only concerned with keeping their jobs and not the long term health of the party, electoral success or anything noble.

They are a shower. Replacing them should - must - be the top priority.
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PaulPowersTash said:
So what is the answer for Labour? (genuine question)
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One of the biggest and easiest is long term normalisation of their policies - anything that seems radical needs to be given time to enter into public discourse through discussion, small scale trials, and joined up thinking. It's easy to dismiss the idea of free broadband for all as some radical commie plot if it seems to come out of nowhere but it's a pretty small thing that will make a huge difference to the economy and to potential equality of opportunity. With the right positioning the public can change opinion and comfort levels pretty quickly. Ed Miliband, for all his faults as a leader, always knew this and is making a good fist of it in his later political career (this isn't about his actual politics it's about how he gets across his views and policies).

It will be harder for Labour than the Tories because they do not have a favourable press and it's unlikely anyone standing on a Labour platform will (if Starmer actually kept to the platform he stood on the media would generally be unfavourable) but it is not impossible.

Tory lite is not an option because full fat Tory is there and so why would anyone go diet? And, more importantly, Tory Lite is no good. It will not make the country fairer, or more welcoming, or better for cyclists, or better for the lowest incomes. Partisan politics isn't a bad thing, compromise isn't some great political weapon.
 
dead_soft said:
One of the biggest and easiest is long term normalisation of their policies - anything that seems radical needs to be given time to enter into public discourse through discussion, small scale trials, and joined up thinking. It's easy to dismiss the idea of free broadband for all as some radical commie plot if it seems to come out of nowhere but it's a pretty small thing that will make a huge difference to the economy and to potential equality of opportunity. With the right positioning the public can change opinion and comfort levels pretty quickly. Ed Miliband, for all his faults as a leader, always knew this and is making a good fist of it in his later political career (this isn't about his actual politics it's about how he gets across his views and policies).

It will be harder for Labour than the Tories because they do not have a favourable press and it's unlikely anyone standing on a Labour platform will (if Starmer actually kept to the platform he stood on the media would generally be unfavourable) but it is not impossible.

Tory lite is not an option because full fat Tory is there and so why would anyone go diet? And, more importantly, Tory Lite is no good. It will not make the country fairer, or more welcoming, or better for cyclists, or better for the lowest incomes. Partisan politics isn't a bad thing, compromise isn't some great political weapon.
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TBF Miliband lost 2015 when he listened to those people rather than running on his own record as leader, which although wasn’t perfect by any means he did on the two biggest occasions (bombing Assad and press malpractice) make the right call.

The papers were the enemy and he had a chance to negate all the bacon sandwich / traitor dad things by drawing attention to what they were doing. Make the election about who ran the country, in whose benefit Murdoch et al were acting.
 
tsubaki said:
TBF Miliband lost 2015 when he listened to those people rather than running on his own record as leader, which although wasn’t perfect by any means he did on the two biggest occasions (bombing Assad and press malpractice) make the right call.

The papers were the enemy and he had a chance to negate all the bacon sandwich / traitor dad things by drawing attention to what they were doing. Make the election about who ran the country, in whose benefit Murdoch et al were acting.
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Yeah, he didn't do well when he had the leadership role but he has always understood how to communicate and why it matters. It was a shame he allowed this to be overrun by the party's worse tendencies.
 
catcherintherye said:
The penny may drop at some point, that slandering the membership as anti-semites and going to war with them and driving them out may mean you eventually run out of money.
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TBF it would be really interesting to see what the money is being spent on - unless there is more chicanery going on in terms of some peoples' wages, even paying out to Ware et al and two GEs shouldn't have trashed finances this much.

I do hope they aren't pretending they are broke in order to purge HQ of everyone they don't like, but I wouldn't put it past them.
 
catcherintherye said:
The penny may drop at some point, that slandering the membership as anti-semites and going to war with them and driving them out may mean you eventually run out of money.
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Collective assets of momentum members - 42 quid. But OK.

Labour's membership is half a million at last count - one of the largest in Europe. It can stand some waxing and waning.
 
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