Current Affairs The Labour Party

[dead_soft]

Yes, it’s all the lefts fault.

Well done lads.

Nothing to do with the people manipulating and manufacturing a right wing power grab. Nope.

All our fault. We’re the ones to blame. Good old Boris just sticking it to the man.

Us bloody lefties. What are we like trying to challenge it.

Careful, you'll be accused of doing a 'it was Chelsea' and refusing to accept any blame

 

[Walken]

Yeah, pandemic has not been Starmers greatest ally.

But your second paragraph proves what I said; Johnson isnt a phoney. Like Corbyn wasnt a phoney.

So you are of the belief that people know Johnson is lying to them for his own benefits but accept that?

I don't want to get all pedantic on you but a man who changes his name for political gain, changes his stance on very specific issues publically for political gain and is about as ideolgically consistant as a daily star headline has to come under that bracket doesn't he? I get that you and many others know what he is, but in the grand scheme of things he opperates by creating a false image of himself

 

[Tubey]

Interesting the the Trump and Johnson supporters are the vocal minorities on the extremes who can be dismissed but apparently on the left they're pushing people into corners and are the problem because they can't see this.

It's so ridiculous to suggest everything is outrage all the time and constant ideological war with no grey areas. Just because people don't think the centre is correct doesn't mean they don't see grey areas or nuance.

They're both two sides of the same coin. The difference is the lecturing and outrage. The right want the status quo to a large extent, the left want revolution. So to the average person, the left are more of a threat to their way of life than the right.

Political change can happen but only incrementally. We don't live in an era like the Russians did in the creation of the Soviet Union. So the key is to cherry pick policy and make gradual change - for example, nationalise something rather than everything, prove its a success, then go further.

 

[Tubey]

Why have you brought Corbyn into it?

blaming the people who didn’t vote for Johnson on him getting in is a ridiculous logic.

You’re saying those that did vote for him only did so to spite those that didn’t. And that they have no real autonomy or accountability for it.

Basically we are a Tory nation for a myriad of reasons but the ultimate, underlying one is that people only really care about themselves. That’s what it comes down to. The haves don’t want to lose it and the have nots think they can get it one day.

I brought Corbyn in as that was the last General Election.

And the bold bit - yes, absolutely. 100% spot on. But the part you're missing is that in addition to that most people have a fairness too. They're prepared to lose a little if it gains a lot; they're not prepared to literally 'bet the house' on it though. That's why the far left here fails.

Until the left understands that there's nothing wrong with aspiration and give a clear, defined vision for how Britain can be better for all then they'll never win here. I saw someone criticise Rachel Reeves the other day for daring to say that reducing the benefit bill is an aspiration and that made her a 'Tory'. That's why Labour have been unelectable.

 

[roydo]

So you are of the belief that people know Johnson is lying to them for his own benefits but accept that?

I don't want to get all pedantic on you but a man who changes his name for political gain, changes his stance on very specific issues publically for political gain and is about as ideolgically consistant as a daily star headline has to come under that bracket doesn't he? I get that you and many others know what he is, but in the grand scheme of things he opperates by creating a false image of himself

Its difficult isnt it?

 

[dead_soft]

They're both two sides of the same coin. The difference is the lecturing and outrage. The right want the status quo to a large extent, the left want revolution. So to the average person, the left are more of a threat to their way of life than the right.

Political change can happen but only incrementally. We don't live in an era like the Russians did in the creation of the Soviet Union. So the key is to cherry pick policy and make gradual change - for example, nationalise something rather than everything, prove its a success, then go further.

They are not both sides of the same coin. Odd to suggest the far right are the same as people getting angry about injustice on the left (even if they are misplaced in their anger, which is a different debate).

It's at least the third time you've mentioned the Soviet Union. Who was advocating overthrowing the queen or having a civil war? Or bringing in anything approaching what the Soviet Union did?

 

[mill]

I brought Corbyn in as that was the last General Election.

And the bold bit - yes, absolutely. 100% spot on. But the part you're missing is that in addition to that most people have a fairness too. They're prepared to lose a little if it gains a lot; they're not prepared to literally 'bet the house' on it though. That's why the far left here fails.

Until the left understands that there's nothing wrong with aspiration and give a clear, defined vision for how Britain can be better for all then they'll never win here. I saw someone criticise Rachel Reeves the other day for daring to say that reducing the benefit bill is an aspiration and that made her a 'Tory'. That's why Labour have been unelectable.

See this is the thing that absolutely astounds me. The notion that fairer redistribution of wealth is some how anti aspirational. It’s absurd. People have been conned into thinking the game isn’t rigged and that all it takes is a bit of hard work.

Trickle down economics and the idea that people are only on benefits because they don’t try hard enough. Nothing to do with privilege. Nothing to do with inequality. They just aren’t quite good enough. Not quite working hard enough.

‘You need to be aspirational like me. I started with nothing but my Eton education. ‘

It’s the biggest con ever.

And people lap it up. Those that voted for this shower, the ones that have shown themselves for what they are over and over, are the ones to blame. They deserve the subjugation.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Scenes when Sir Keir is our next Prime Minister.

Stick with him we need stability. Get rid of Momentum and wait for the vaccine bounce to wear off and you watch him go.

No patience these days.

 

[Mrk]

It's why nothing sticks to him. Tell people he's a liar, a horrible person etc. etc. and they respond with "yeah we know and don't care."

Rightly or wrongly, people seem to like that they know what they're getting with him. It's the exact same phenomenon that enabled Trump.

People have been conditioned to accept the abhorrent. With the 'woke' screaming hysterically about each and every little stupid thing, day after day, people have fired back against it with their vote.

The constant moaning caused substantial self-harm to all progressive causes due to a complete inability to cherry pick issues of actual importance and show restraint on others for maximum impact. Instead, it's all white noise now - it's why the Tory sleaze stuff made no impact; nobody gives a toss because you moan about absolutely everything so they've been trained not to listen.

This is spot on. I also think one aspect of his appeal is that people look at him and see a deeply flawed person, and whether we like it or not, that's relatable - we're all flawed, we all lie, we all make mistakes. In a world of identikit politicians pretending to be whiter than white who nobody can relate to, that inherent vulnerability in his character clearly appeals to people.

He's still a charlatan though.

 

[orchard]

They're both two sides of the same coin. The difference is the lecturing and outrage. The right want the status quo to a large extent, the left want revolution. So to the average person, the left are more of a threat to their way of life than the right.

Political change can happen but only incrementally. We don't live in an era like the Russians did in the creation of the Soviet Union. So the key is to cherry pick policy and make gradual change - for example, nationalise something rather than everything, prove its a success, then go further.

I don't think wanting to remove standards, redefine human rights for it's citizens, prorogue parliament, lie to the Queen, undermine the judiciary and attempting to stop protests is consistent with keeping the status quo. There's obviously a lot more to add to that list, but the refutation stands.

 

[PaulPowersTash]

I haven't seen a single Trump supporter (or Johnson for that matter) admit he is a liar, the idea people say "we know, but we don't care" seems very far from his supporters line of defence. They claim everything he says is gospel and there are worldwide media driven conspiricies against him.

And that veiwpoint is the exact problem with the left today.
Everybody knows what Johnson is about - exactly.
It's just that the alternative is so unpaletable they vote for the Tories.
The 'everybody else is wrong and you will be told and listen to us' attitude
of the LP is why its in the absolute and dire mess it's in today.

 

[dead_soft]

And that veiwpoint is the exact problem with the left today.
Everybody knows what Johnson is about - exactly.
It's just that the alternative is so unpaletable they vote for the Tories.
The 'everybody else is wrong and you will be told and listen to us' attitude
of the LP is why its in the absolute and dire mess it's in today.

What should the Labour Party be saying, 'actually, we're the ones in the wrong so don't listen to us but please do vote for us, we'll be awful'?

 

[orchard]

And that veiwpoint is the exact problem with the left today.
Everybody knows what Johnson is about - exactly.
It's just that the alternative is so unpaletable they vote for the Tories.
The 'everybody else is wrong and you will be told and listen to us' attitude
of the LP is why its in the absolute and dire mess it's in today.

That's odd, so why do the BBC, for example, bend over backwards pushing the boundaries of truth when it reports on the latest controversial disclosure then?

 

[JimmyJeffers]

That's odd, so why do the BBC, for example, bend over backwards pushing the boundaries of truth when it reports on the latest controversial disclosure then?

BBC are all pro labour according to this rasper.

 

[Tubey]

See this is the thing that absolutely astounds me. The notion that fairer redistribution of wealth is some how anti aspirational. It’s absurd. People have been conned into thinking the game isn’t rigged and that all it takes is a bit of hard work.

Trickle down economics and the idea that people are only on benefits because they don’t try hard enough. Nothing to do with privilege. Nothing to do with inequality. They just aren’t quite good enough. Not quite working hard enough.

‘You need to be aspirational like me. I started with nothing but my Eton education. ‘

It’s the biggest con ever.

And people lap it up. Those that voted for this shower, the ones that have shown themselves for what they are over and over, are the ones to blame. They deserve the subjugation.

They know the game is rigged. They know the class system is what it is. They're receptive to some change.

But they don't want everything given to them. They understand that "redistribution of wealth" is code for job losses. They don't want to lose their jobs. They don't see themselves as proletariat/serfs and resent the patronisation.

They don't feel 'subjugated'. Again, the language you use is not reflective of everyday real life. This is why you're electorally irrelevant. Until you offer something plausible that is some improvement without massive risk to people's lives, you always will be.