Current Affairs The Labour Party

[JimmyJeffers]

Bust up with Rayner wasn't ideal - on the face of it you couldn't get two more complimentary politicians. Should be a very re-inforcing front two but sounds like they are miles apart.

I quite like Rayner to be fair. You’re right enough, I thought it would work out also. The decision to go after Corbyn was very badly thought out I think.

 

[mill]

Most people understand it as punitive tax rates. That is for sure.

Just for info:

If the Labour party comes to power, the rates of income tax will increase to 45% for income over £80,000 and 50% over £123,000.

Those working class fellas living hand to mouth on 80 grand a year.

 

[dead_soft]

Obviously not. But they should be looking for policies that attract the working class. By the working class I mean people who have to go to work to pay the bills, regardless of how big your house is or what German luxury car you drive. If you need to go to work to pay your mortage and utility bills then you are working class in my book. But all they seem to do is to go out of their way to alienate a very large chunk of those people. Labour has now become the party of idealistic students (who don't seem to understand that they are the ones who will be paying the punitive tax rates of LP policy in years to come) and the public sector.
That is just not a big enough tranche of voters to win an election. Some of Corbyns policies were very good. Especially those regarding the nationalisation of the railways and the utility companies. It's just that the voters didn't trust him or the Labour party anywhere near enough to deliver it. This country desperately needs a strong opposition - without a doubt. Otherwise the current incumbents really could go off piste and be very dangerous. However, as other posters have pointed out, that needs to be done by evolution not revolution. It really is 100% crystal clear: The electorate in general do not trust the Labour party in all manner of things. Until that changes Labour are peeing into the wind. However, from where I sit, I really don't see a genuine attitude for change. It's very much more of the same. You are wrong. We are right and we are not going to stop telling you until you listen...

So someone who has a £9k a month mortgage in Chelsea on a £4 million house earning £500,000 a year is working class?

But if you're saying you want evolution, and that you liked Corbyn's policies presumably you didn't think they were revolutionary. It all seems quite muddled

 

[Tubey]

Are the 'woke' doing this, or do right-leaning media sources present the 'woke' as doing this in order to firm up the countervote?

And who are the 'woke' anyway? A few thousand on Twitter with nothing better to do?

Honest questions, by the way. I'm fascinated by the commentary about Labour's role in the 'culture wars' and the perception they're chasing the liberal progressive vote at the expense of their traditional heartlands.

When Starmer and Rayner took a knee for a BLM photo op, I groaned, because I knew it was a terrible electoral own goal. Its not the right wing media doing that kind of stuff, it's the left. They are architects of their own downfall due to an inability to show restraint.

Yes, the 'woke' are a minority who are extremely vocal, with no wider electoral support. Their traditional voters aren't racists and they're sick of being portrayed as such. So the backlash is a result of being forced into a corner by a left that is obsessed with a 'with us or against us' mentality.

 

[Walken]

And that veiwpoint is the exact problem with the left today.
Everybody knows what Johnson is about - exactly.
It's just that the alternative is so unpaletable they vote for the Tories.
The 'everybody else is wrong and you will be told and listen to us' attitude
of the LP is why its in the absolute and dire mess it's in today.

Blah blah the left the woke blah blah, jog on ya whopper and tell me how the bbc is a commie propaganda outpost

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Optimistic but certainly the voice of reason there mate. The river of piss cascading off twitter just because labour lost a by-election (that was never in play in the first place) obscures the true picture.

Starmer 's like DCL in a bad patch two years ago - get beat and clowns on the match thread demanding that he be chased out of the game by an angry mob. But wiser heads knew there was a player in there.

Social Media for you these days Black Belt - I remember a few months back people were rejoicing "Johnson cant touch Sir Keir in these parliament debates he's on the ropes" now apparently he's useless and a Tory Trojan Horse.

Its a marathon not a sprint - once the Tories hike up taxes in the coming years to pay for the Pandemic Sir Keir will have them where he wants them.

By all means if he gets hammered at the next General get rid of him and appoint Blair or Burnham as the main man.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

Are the 'woke' doing this, or do right-leaning media sources present the 'woke' as doing this in order to firm up the countervote?

And who are the 'woke' anyway? A few thousand on Twitter with nothing better to do?

Honest questions, by the way. I'm fascinated by the commentary about Labour's role in the 'culture wars' and the perception they're chasing the liberal progressive vote at the expense of their traditional heartlands.

A question of our age tbh because you're basically asking what is people's reality? Labour 2019 manifesto might as well have been penned by Mao Zedong as far as the electorate as concerned, but anyone educated knows there was not substantial left wing content in there. But what's more important? The messenger is everything in politics and if someone like Corbyn is so vulnerable to mis-representation and manipulation then he shouldn't even be there.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Blah blah the left the woke blah blah, jog on ya whopper and tell me how the bbc is a commie propaganda outpost

‘The woke’ lol

 

[Mrk]

Most people understand it as punitive tax rates. That is for sure.

Do they? Is there a mainstream party in the UK that doesn't believe in redistribution?

Since 2010 the amount of tax collected has increased from £548 billion to £873 billion and government expenditure has increased from £697 billion to £928 billion (pre-covid). We tax and spend more every year.

Labour's plans for additional wealth distribution consist of a few extra % on income tax and corporation tax - hardly radical.

 

[PaulPowersTash]

So someone who has a £9k a month mortgage in Chelsea on a £4 million house earning £500,000 a year is working class?

But if you're saying you want evolution, and that you liked Corbyn's policies presumably you didn't think they were revolutionary. It all seems quite muddled

Most people in this country are in financial dire straights after 90 days without any wages.

 

[degsy]

i'm sorry that just isn't true. I live in Pendle and have lived in Burnley. When i was young the main town in Pendle (Nelson) was lovely, vibrant shopping centre, spotless streets, plenty of pubs and cafes etc.

Now? complete dump, all the wealthy and middle class have moved out of it. It now has no high street, 1 pub (thats a shithole).

The mass influx of Eastern Europeans tipped people over the edge, people don't hate them or anything it's just they don't have much money, so don't spend in the town.

The slide started by the mass influx of Pakistanis, in the 60's and 70's. Unfortunately for towns liker above the Pakistanis that came over were the poor ones, that again had little money.

I'll take your word on the then and now town comparisons, plenty like that in the north, not too sure that the other reasons is all the full story though

 

[degsy]

Most people in this country are in financial dire straights after 90 days without any wages.

90 days? 2 weeks more like

 

[mill]

Most people in this country are in financial dire straights after 90 days without any wages.

And you think that is down to corbyn’s tax policy?

 

[PaulPowersTash]

Social Media for you these days Black Belt - I remember a few months back people were rejoicing "Johnson cant touch Sir Keir in these parliament debates he's on the ropes" now apparently he's useless and a Tory Trojan Horse.

Its a marathon not a sprint - once the Tories hike up taxes in the coming years to pay for the Pandemic Sir Keir will have them where he wants them.

By all means if he gets hammered at the next General get rid of him and appoint Blair or Burnham as the main man.

And on what basis would Burnham be appointed except that he is northern?
What has he done for Greater Manchester apart from loose £30 million additional funding
for furloughed staff? It's a genuine question and not a dig. I live in Manchester and from where
I sit it's a disaster. Pre COVID I took some some business colleagues from Germany and Switzerland
out one night for something to eat and a few drinks in the city centre. I was genuinely embarrassed
of my home town and City. It's a cesspit it really is.

 

[PaulPowersTash]

And you think that is down to corbyn’s tax policy?

No.