Current Affairs The Labour Party

[dannyboy]

Clive Lewis on Labour chasing the fabled centre ground was spot on last night. 6 years ago what the Tories are doing now would've been considered far left yet today it's mainstream. Political parties that make a difference persuade people to believe in their arguments. Labour need to have the courage to do that.

 

[mill]

Wrong question (as evidenced by the result of the last GE, and the recent by-election in Hartlepool).

People ARE anti freedom of movement. Every time the electorate is asked this question, the answer is clearly given. What is confusing is the continued stubborn refusal of the Labour party to accept this as current fact. Labour either has to start making a strong case FOR freedom of movement, or abandon it as a policy. There's no point continually telling the electorate that they are wrong and then just asking the same question again.

People aren’t anti freedom of movement. They are anti freedom of movement for people they don’t like.

They want the ability to do what they want and go where they want but want to control the ability for others to do so.

 

[dannyboy]

I really don't think Momentum have any such powers as you seem to think.

It's just a grass roots movement who have people willing to hit the street and campaign.

Two of my wifes friends are members, one is a school teacher and the other is a children counsellor.

To my knowledge all they have seemed to do is help local food banks and done a anti protest march a few years back against a Tommy Robinson group.

Momentum was so bad that the Conservatives tried to launch its own grass roots movement Activate to rival it but that crashed and burned.

It seems to me that this type of movement worries the Conservative party so it gets painted out to be some sort of evil movement that is in control of the Labour party.

Which i find strange.

For years it's been bemoaned that young people don't care about politics. All of a sudden plenty of us did and we were painted as the enemy within. I've had conversations with people who I'd usually consider quite rational but whenever Momentum was mentioned they'd descend into some hate filled rant.

All I can say is the establishment did one hell of a job of destroying what was basically a collection of mostly younger people who wanted a better country.

 

[dead_soft]

For years it's been bemoaned that young people don't care about politics. All of a sudden plenty of us did and we were painted as the enemy within. I've had conversations with people who I'd usually consider quite rational but whenever Momentum was mentioned they'd descend into some hate filled rant.

All I can say is the establishment did one hell of a job of destroying what was basically a collection of mostly younger people who wanted a better country.

It was really grim how so many within Labour helped the establishment out too because they felt threatened rather than energised.

 

[Tubey]

For years it's been bemoaned that young people don't care about politics. All of a sudden plenty of us did and we were painted as the enemy within. I've had conversations with people who I'd usually consider quite rational but whenever Momentum was mentioned they'd descend into some hate filled rant.

All I can say is the establishment did one hell of a job of destroying what was basically a collection of mostly younger people who wanted a better country.

It's because most people just want evolution. Momentum and its' supporters want revolution.

Most people don't consider themselves proletariat/serfs. Hence why Labour had no chance of ever winning an election under Corbyn - because the working class are aspirational and felt insulted by the lefts view of them. The politically active 'grassroots' of Labour are a combination of the 'Islington' mindset and the Marxist one; both of which have no broad appeal in the UK.

It's not that you're 'young' - it's that you are completely at odds with what people actually want from life, so they fire back at you. Momentum deserve the ire they got. It never ceases to amaze me how the left don't understand the working class now.

 

[mill]

It's because most people just want evolution. Momentum and its' supporters want revolution.

Most people don't consider themselves proletariat/serfs. Hence why Labour had no chance of ever winning an election under Corbyn - because the working class are aspirational and felt insulted by the lefts view of them. The politically active 'grassroots' of Labour are a combination of the 'Islington' mindset and the Marxist one; both of which have no broad appeal in the UK.

It's not that you're 'young' - it's that you are completely at odds with what people actually want from life, so they fire back at you. Momentum deserve the ire they got. It never ceases to amaze me how the left don't understand the working class now.

Haha what’s the ‘Islington’ mindset?

 

[Tubey]

Haha what’s the ‘Islington’ mindset?

That's not a real question is it, as you're not interested in my answer. So why ask it.

 

[davek]

So to have a different or alternative view to you is wrong and not allowed?

No. Not "not allowed".

I'm saying that anyone posting about being a Tory on an Everton forum is very strange. You might have heard that scousers dont have an altogether great relationship with a political party that tried to destroy us.

So, in short, I think it's a massive 'kin nerve piping up on one of our forums about it. But hey, it's a free country still, I suppose...

 

[Hickson9]

It's because most people just want evolution. Momentum and its' supporters want revolution.

Most people don't consider themselves proletariat/serfs. Hence why Labour had no chance of ever winning an election under Corbyn - because the working class are aspirational and felt insulted by the lefts view of them. The politically active 'grassroots' of Labour are a combination of the 'Islington' mindset and the Marxist one; both of which have no broad appeal in the UK.

It's not that you're 'young' - it's that you are completely at odds with what people actually want from life, so they fire back at you. Momentum deserve the ire they got. It never ceases to amaze me how the left don't understand the working class now.

Islington has significant poverty rates above the (already high) London average.

 

[davek]

I wasnt saying it was right or wrong Davek , just how to Labour sell it to people in that position,
And let's face it ,that's the reality for loads of people in this country right now.
How do labour get to them? ,
up to now it's not been done.

Well, I'd say dont hang onto their coat tails and feed the prejudices they've been fed by the politcal opposition.

A party should lead and seek to inform and educate. Politics as far as I;m concerned isn't holding a mirror up to people and what they think. If we did that we'd have capital punishment back and mass repatriation for a kick off.

The LP need to get down to it and force the Tories to prove where the pork barrell they apparantly offer is actually made in the areas they promise it to...that if it is real that it goes to creating jobs and homes and not straight in the pocket of the local businesses in terms of tax breaks and inducements and bungs to set up. It will, btw. And then they need to spell out why migrants aren;t the problem; the problem is a bent system where low wages are the norm - for everyone whatever their skin colour or ethnicity or place of origin. That takes courage, and I dont see Starmer having it. He'll just get a few more Union Jacks out and double down pandering to the prejudices of swathes of people.

 

[dead_soft]

It's because most people just want evolution. Momentum and its' supporters want revolution.

Most people don't consider themselves proletariat/serfs. Hence why Labour had no chance of ever winning an election under Corbyn - because the working class are aspirational and felt insulted by the lefts view of them. The politically active 'grassroots' of Labour are a combination of the 'Islington' mindset and the Marxist one; both of which have no broad appeal in the UK.

It's not that you're 'young' - it's that you are completely at odds with what people actually want from life, so they fire back at you. Momentum deserve the ire they got. It never ceases to amaze me how the left don't understand the working class now.

What was it about Momentum that said they didn't think there was aspiration in the working class?

Imagine saying the 'Islington' mindset in anything but a satirical way.

 

[mill]

That's not a real question is it, as you're not interested in my answer. So why ask it.

I asked because I’d like to understand your perception of what the ‘Islington mindset’ is.

 

[Tubey]

What was it about Momentum that said they didn't think there was aspiration in the working class?

Imagine saying the 'Islington' mindset in anything but a satirical way.

Islington’s socialist history: ‘Why is it radicals come from Clerkenwell?’

Islington is Labour’s heartland with a proud tradition of left-wing politics dating back to its origins as an outskirts-town where radicals and…

www.islingtongazette.co.uk

 

[Tubey]

I asked because I’d like to understand your perception of what the ‘Islington mindset’ is.

By saying "haha" before it. Sure.

 

[dead_soft]

Islington’s socialist history: ‘Why is it radicals come from Clerkenwell?’

Islington is Labour’s heartland with a proud tradition of left-wing politics dating back to its origins as an outskirts-town where radicals and…

www.islingtongazette.co.uk

So this is what you were getting at rather than an idea of elitism? What exactly, then is the Islington thought process and political ideology as separate from Marxism, say?