Current Affairs The Labour Party

[davek]

How do people have the nerve to pipe up on an Everton forum as a Tory?

The fact these people are emboldened to do so is sinister.

@peteblue has been our resident Tory crank for so long, but now they feel they can surface safely in small numbers.

Incredible.

 

[edge]

Its all ok when the immigrant is serving coffee or the Nandos picking flowers or undercutting Jim the plumber electrician builder etc. But know your place don't settle don't live next door, don't send kids to same school as the indigenous types, just don't compete, know your place immigrant.

As the poster @Tree13 said Labour havnt given an argument good enough to counter the above.
Ok spin this on its head , your young living in a deprived area , no qualifications, low wage , no savings to up sticks to the EU , or anywhere else for that matter, no skillset even if you could,you want to get married, but the only housing options are rented, (which you cannot afford ) due to you low wage or social housing,
you will be low down on any list and possibly wait years for an offer if you get one at all.
You see people moving from outside the UK getting housed and competing in your job market.
Sell me the benefits of free movement and the befits of immigration to a person in that position?
I couldnt and I dont think labour have either till then the problem continues.

 

[roydo]

As the poster @Tree13 said Labour havnt given an argument good enough to counter the above.
Ok spin this on its head , your young living in a deprived area , no qualifications, low wage , no savings to up sticks to the EU , or anywhere else for that matter, no skillset even if you could,you want to get married, but the only housing options are rented, (which you cannot afford ) due to you low wage or social housing,
you will be low down on any list and possibly wait years for an offer if you get one at all.
You see people moving from outside the UK getting housed and competing in your job market.
Sell me the benefits of free movement and the befits of immigration to a person in that position?
I couldnt and I dont think labour have either till then the problem continues.

Looking at that case study, my observation is that the problem isnt really free movement of people.

 

[davek]

As the poster @Tree13 said Labour havnt given an argument good enough to counter the above.
Ok spin this on its head , your young living in a deprived area , no qualifications, low wage , no savings to up sticks to the EU , or anywhere else for that matter, no skillset even if you could,you want to get married, but the only housing options are rented, (which you cannot afford ) due to you low wage or social housing,
you will be low down on any list and possibly wait years for an offer if you get one at all.
You see people moving from outside the UK getting housed and competing in your job market.
Sell me the benefits of free movement and the befits of immigration to a person in that position?
I couldnt and I dont think labour have either till then the problem continues.

It's swings and roundabouts though isn't it? We also get the expertise of many migrants and that's what's kept this country a vibrant nation as far as arts and the sciences and entrepreneurism is con cerned. And not all of them come into this country with the qualifications to do those jobs, so quotas based on a points system is a crude tool.

We take the rough with the smooth. As we always have done. The net givers and the net takers. Twas ever thus...until Brexit and a numb nuts brand of Tory populism persuaded millions that they are hard done by through migrants rather than the bent and exploitative political economy they were born into.

 

[PaulPowersTash]

Ok, but don't you see how that comes across to the electorate? EVEN if you are right, the approach you're advocating is to berate the electorate and criticise them for voting the way the have. This doesn't do anything to inform them, or to persuade them to open their eyes to other possibilities, so why on Earth would they vote differently if asked the same question again a year later?

And therein lies the problem with Labour.
They keep telling White Man Van that he reads the wrong newspapers.
They keep telling the brexit voting public they were completely and totally 100% wrong.
They keep telling the white middle class that they are racists. They are more interested in
Palestine than they are about their own constituents and then they sit there and navel
gaze and wonder why nobody is voting for them anymore?
Labour in its current state is completely unelectable and that isn't good for any of us.
But Whilst Starmer and Rayner are the leader and deputy leader (or whatever numerous jobs
she has these days) nothing will change. But I don't believe they have any interest in changing.
Their views and ideology is sacrosanct. Everybody else is wrong.

 

[PaulPowersTash]

How do people have the nerve to pipe up on an Everton forum as a Tory?

The fact these people are emboldened to do so is sinister.

@peteblue has been our resident Tory crank for so long, but now they feel they can surface safely in small numbers.

Incredible.

So to have a different or alternative view to you is wrong and not allowed?

 

[edge]

It's swings and roundabouts though isn't it? We also get the expertise of many migrants and that's what's kept this country a vibrant nation as far as arts and the sciences and entrepreneurism is con cerned. And not all of them come into this country with the qualifications to do those jobs, so quotas based on a points system is a crude tool.

We take the rough with the smooth. As we always have done. The net givers and the net takers. Twas ever thus...until Brexit and a numb nuts brand of Tory populism persuaded millions that they are hard done by through migrants rather than the bent and exploitative political economy they were born into.

I wasnt saying it was right or wrong Davek , just how to Labour sell it to people in that position,
And let's face it ,that's the reality for loads of people in this country right now.
How do labour get to them? ,
up to now it's not been done.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

And therein lies the problem with Labour.
They keep telling White Man Van that he reads the wrong newspapers.
They keep telling the brexit voting public they were completely and totally 100% wrong.
They keep telling the white middle class that they are racists. They are more interested in
Palestine than they are about their own constituents and then they sit there and navel
gaze and wonder why nobody is voting for them anymore?
Labour in its current state is completely unelectable and that isn't good for any of us.
But Whilst Starmer and Rayner are the leader and deputy leader (or whatever numerous jobs
she has these days) nothing will change. But I don't believe they have any interest in changing.
Their views and ideology is sacrosanct. Everybody else is wrong.

lol This is all complete nonsense.

 

[orchard]

Why do people expect Labour to be of a standard standard that one would give one's assent to marry one's only daughter to, and when that falls short just vote for a bunch of seedy grifters without any scrutiny whatsoever ?

 

[Walken]

Again, ignoring the actual problem.

That you should ignore facts and what would be beneficial to the majority in the name of embracing self interested populism?

 

[Blue 1]

I'm not questioning her as a constituency MP. I don't live in her constituency, so am not in any position to comment on her effectiveness or popularity as a constituency MP.

Abbott is damaging to a Labour party on a wider reputational basis, and another Labour MP with a less high-profile track record of utter stupidity would erase some of that reputational damage without losing the constituency (presuming it's a safe seat).

Funny thing with Diane Abbott. Yeah, she's put her foot in her mouth a few times, but there are plenty of MPs on both benches with records of doing similar, including the current Prime Minister and Home Secretary. It's always blown up and amplified x 1000 and never let go with Abbott though.

 

[Deleted member 48881]

It’s not just in Britain – across Europe, social democracy is losing its way | Tarik Abou-Chadi & Jane Gingrich

Labour’s election defeat illustrates a failure by the left to communicate a clear economic vision rather than a loss of working-class votes

www.theguardian.com

 

[grandjoeblue]

I actually think some of the Tory points made in the last few pages do show what the voters in places like Stoke, Hartlepool etc are probably thinking. I personally disagree with their points as there are loads of towns which are predominantly white british but are still deprived. There are definite racial undertones to voting in the UK and its getting worse.

The UK is getting more racist and people from rough towns are shifting the blame towards immigrants with support from the media. Its going to be extremely difficult for a left wing party to get into power.

 

[Moomin]

Momentum won't let him.

Labour still harbours a number of MPs who are abhorrently toxic to any floating voter in the middle ground: Abbott, Burgon, Lammy, Nandy, Thornberry and the like. Starmer does not have full enough control of Labour to get rid of them. Until Labour rids itself of the Momentum elements, the bulk of the country will continue to vote on the basis of "Anyone but those numpties", as is evidenced by the fact that Boris Johnson holds an 80-seat majority in the Commons and Labour just lost 300 local Councillors.

I really don't think Momentum have any such powers as you seem to think.

It's just a grass roots movement who have people willing to hit the street and campaign.

Two of my wifes friends are members, one is a school teacher and the other is a children counsellor.

To my knowledge all they have seemed to do is help local food banks and done a anti protest march a few years back against a Tommy Robinson group.

Momentum was so bad that the Conservatives tried to launch its own grass roots movement Activate to rival it but that crashed and burned.

It seems to me that this type of movement worries the Conservative party so it gets painted out to be some sort of evil movement that is in control of the Labour party.

Which i find strange.

 

[Blue 1]

Labour need to offer more than just "Tories are bastards". Everyone already knows that, but they've been pouring money into the places they took in 2019, they've just paid a lot of people's wages for the last year, and they're currently getting a bounce from the success of the vaccine and the lockdown lifting.

There needs to be a reckoning for their naked corruption and disastrous handling of the pandemic, and Labour, or whatever leftist entity takes its place should it fail to do so, needs to get their act together and hammer the he'll out of them for it, while offering a positive vision for the country.

And some nice 3 word slogans lol