Current Affairs The Labour Party

[tsubaki]

If you stopped 100 people on the street and asked them did the Labour Party under Corbyn try to bring about Communist policies or a shift to a Communist party, what do you think the response would be?

Guffaws of laughter, widespread disbelief at such an ignorant and silly question? Sadly not - it would see of plenty of nodding of heads and I agree with you there mate.

That's it in a nutshell - if the question 'Is this man a communist?' can even be entertained by the electorate then that man shouldn't be leading a major political party.

Those people have been told that multiple times every day though, and as we have seen here when you actually question them about what Communist policies were being advocated (or even what they understand communism to be) the nodding heads turn into blank faces.

The maddening thing is that it (Labour being associated with Communism) isn’t even something Corbyn, it was deployed against “Red” Ed Miliband, Brown (often described as Stalinist) and the majority of Labour leaders right back to the Times and it’s letter.

(sorry - the Mail not the Times)

 

[Charlie Sweet]

The perception is key. The centre ground was slashing public spending 10 years ago, now investing is all the rage. That´s definitely one of Corbyn´s achievements to have moved the debate. Cooper, Burnham and Kendall wouldn´t have got us to the point we are now had they won in 2015.

Investment is a reaction to the Brexit-fuelled outlook (initially) and now out of necessity? All of those 3 are a big loss to the Labour Party in my book.

I'm not sure I've ever seen or heard anyone in Momentum say that. Either way, do you not think, the idea as espoused by staff that if people they like don't run the party they can throw their toys out the pram and wreck things, as a fairly arrogant and entitled way to behave?

If that culture is allowed to continue, Labour will not win. As for government in waiting, I don't see it at all. Who are the stand outs in this cabinet? In the latest poll Labour have slink to 20 odd points behind the Conservatives. We look a million miles away from government. Yet we were sold on the idea that just changing Corbyn would lead to this great renaissance and huge poll leads against (as you put it) "the worst Tory party in history" (it's not, the one that Blair faced was).

The truth is this goes much deeper. The rot goes much deeper. There's no magic bullet here, and trying to act like a government in waiting will be massively damaging (as it was for Corbyn when he took advice from people inside Momentum to start pursuing this policy).

Thats what I've heard from momentum members when both alongside them in LP meetings and on the other side of the table in a work environment elsewhere in the country.

As for poll ratings - come on, its far too early yet to poll on Starmer not least as we're in the midst of this covid madness. Give it time. I absolutely believe he appeals to most of the centre ground and, at best, doesn't turn them off in the way Corbyn did.

 

[blulouie]

 

[catcherintherye]

Investment is a reaction to the Brexit-fuelled outlook (initially) and now out of necessity? All of those 3 are a big loss to the Labour Party in my book.




Thats what I've heard from momentum members when both alongside them in LP meetings and on the other side of the table in a work environment elsewhere in the country.

As for poll ratings - come on, its far too early yet to poll on Starmer not least as we're in the midst of this covid madness. Give it time. I absolutely believe he appeals to most of the centre ground and, at best, doesn't turn them off in the way Corbyn did.

We will see re Starmer. Maybe he will, I hope so. Let's not kid ourselves that hes smashing it out of the park currently though, as hes not. We have declined since Corbyn left.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

We will see re Starmer. Maybe he will, I hope so. Let's not kid ourselves that hes smashing it out of the park currently though, as hes not. We have declined since Corbyn left.

On what basis are you saying we have declined? Corbyn personally was toxic to a huge swathe of voters. Polling backs that up as well as I know from my own experience.

Also the current shadow cabinet is infinitely stronger. In addition to Corbyn having likes of Diane Abbot as shadow home sec was madness.

All that has been neutralised now at worst.

 

[catcherintherye]

On what basis are you saying we have declined? Corbyn personally was toxic to a huge swathe of voters. Polling backs that up as well as I know from my own experience.

Also the current shadow cabinet is infinitely stronger. In addition to Corbyn having likes of Diane Abbot as shadow home sec was madness.

All that has been neutralised now at worst.

Well just a cursory look at polling since Corbyn announced his resignation and effectively left, we have been nosediving ever since. I remember people saying he HAD to leave as we would automatically turn it around once he announced. Thus far we haven't.

Maybe the shadow cabinet is stronger. I find the hate sent towards Diane Abbott difficult really, had any Labour cabinet member before or since been subjected to that, they would not have had the strength of character to keep moving forward. Either way though, being a bit better than what Corbyn had, is nit the same as looking like a government in waiting, is it?

 

[tsubaki]

Well just a cursory look at polling since Corbyn announced his resignation and effectively left, we have been nosediving ever since. I remember people saying he HAD to leave as we would automatically turn it around once he announced. Thus far we haven't.

Maybe the shadow cabinet is stronger. I find the hate sent towards Diane Abbott difficult really, had any Labour cabinet member before or since been subjected to that, they would not have had the strength of character to keep moving forward. Either way though, being a bit better than what Corbyn had, is nit the same as looking like a government in waiting, is it?

TBF given what we now know about what Abbott was going through in her personal life for much of that time, its remarkable she was able to do what she did.

 

[peteblue]

On what basis are you saying we have declined? Corbyn personally was toxic to a huge swathe of voters. Polling backs that up as well as I know from my own experience.

Also the current shadow cabinet is infinitely stronger. In addition to Corbyn having likes of Diane Abbot as shadow home sec was madness.

All that has been neutralised now at worst.

Indeed. Labour was seen as a group of loony tunes....

 

[Charlie Sweet]

Well just a cursory look at polling since Corbyn announced his resignation and effectively left, we have been nosediving ever since. I remember people saying he HAD to leave as we would automatically turn it around once he announced. Thus far we haven't.

Maybe the shadow cabinet is stronger. I find the hate sent towards Diane Abbott difficult really, had any Labour cabinet member before or since been subjected to that, they would not have had the strength of character to keep moving forward. Either way though, being a bit better than what Corbyn had, is nit the same as looking like a government in waiting, is it?

I've said it before - its way to early to poll on Starmer let alone fact we sit in the midst of a crisis. Wait and see. But Corbyn was personally a huge vote loser as far as I'm concerned. Abbot was woeful and came across terribly. Her personal stuff is just that but Corbyn should never have out her in the firing line.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Abbot seems to be a nice person with good intentions but she was way out of her depth. The fact that Corbyn couldn't see it is indicative that he was too.

 

[Aberblue]

Abbot seems to be a nice person with good intentions but she was way out of her depth. The fact that Corbyn couldn't see it is indicative that he was too.

I don't know about Abbott being a nice person. She comes over on tv as being patronising and arrogant. Also, someone who believes that Chairman Mao "did more good than harm" clearly has problems with morality.

 

[Pudsey]

I believe Abbott's heart was probably in the right place but in recent years she was definitely in that group of condescending gets that cost labour many thousands of votes. To say otherwise imho is to be wilfully blind to the reality.

 

[Agent Blue]

If you stopped 100 people on the street and asked them did the Labour Party under Corbyn try to bring about Communist policies or a shift to a Communist party, what do you think the response would be?

Guffaws of laughter, widespread disbelief at such an ignorant and silly question? Sadly not - it would see of plenty of nodding of heads and I agree with you there mate.

That's it in a nutshell - if the question 'Is this man a communist?' can even be entertained by the electorate then that man shouldn't be leading a major political party.

Do you think that Johnson has any involvement with Russia?

 

[dead_soft]

I don't know about Abbott being a nice person. She comes over on tv as being patronising and arrogant. Also, someone who believes that Chairman Mao "did more good than harm" clearly has problems with morality.

What about her was patronising and arrogant?

 

[dannyboy]

The test for Starmer will come when the Tories try to convince everyone that austerity is the only way to go again. I hope he holds his nerve and sticks to the promises he made to the members. Any surrender will see us lose. Miliband proved Tory lite doesn't work and I genuinely think after this crisis people will be more in support of higher taxes for the rich and public investment than ever before.