Current Affairs The Labour Party

[tsubaki]

I not denying that I see what has happened as an entryst threat to the party.

But if you had the choice of being a member of the Corbyn Crew or a Tory what would go for. I'm with Jeremy on that one.

You are spending a lot of your posts delegitimising people, calling them entryists, a crew, cult etc. It’s risible, especially as those epithets could with a lot more justification be said about people on the centre / right of the party.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

You are spending a lot of your posts delegitimising people, calling them entryists, a crew, cult etc. It’s risible, especially as those epithets could with a lot more justification be said about people on the centre / right of the party.

The UK tends on the whole to be centrist in our views and Labour a centre left party. Entrysts have a different times attempted to pull the party further left but as a people I think that it is fare to say that Communism, Trots and the teachings of Mao only reflect the views of a small minority only. Corbyn, Lansman, Murray, Milne and the like are in that small vocal clique.

 

[Twinkletoes123]

I see forensic was the name of the day.

 

[Aberblue]

My take on Starmer v Johnson in the HoC is that Starmer will dissect Boris who will revert to making noises/jokes/shouting slogans. As a lawyer Starmer will persist and keep Johnson on the spot.

While I think that you're right on this point, remember that William Hague repeatedly made Tony Blair very uncomfortable at PMQ. I don't need to remind anyone about what happened in the General Election of 2001.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

While I think that you're right on this point, remember that William Hague repeatedly made Tony Blair very uncomfortable at PMQ. I don't need to remind anyone about what happened in the General Election of 2001.

William Hague, Tory boy who never grew up who can drink 16 pints of Yorkshire bitter. Proper Westminster professional with a nerdy voice. Not even remotely comparable to Starmer even on the shallowest of comparisons.

 

[tsubaki]

lol

 

[Charlie Sweet]

It was actually the Labour MPs and party officials who hated the Labour Party more than they hated the Tories. Hence loads of them being absolutely gutted after the 2017 election result.

2017? We lost against the worst Tory party in memory.

I'll play devils advocate a little here mate. Have you seen the emails that were being sent by Labour staffers (and this will be the tip of the iceberg). I suspect the party machine actually hates Corbyn, the membership and anyone to the left of Blair more than they hate the Tories. I mean the messages about preferring IDS to the first shadow cabinet (which remember was very broad, had many people loyal to both Blair and Brown in it) was a bit of an eye opener.

I think overall Corbyn will be remembered well. I really worry for Labour. They have a group of people at the core (top) of the party who have this mixture of arrogance, entitlement and stupidity that if they are allowed to run things again, will run it much further into the ground than Corbyn did (as they did before he arrived).

I dont see any arrogance to be honest. I saw loads in momentum that they were right and "capitalism will fail". I see the front bench now as a government in waiting. Potentially.

Advice that would be far better heeded by the centre than anyone else, I feel.

You can only win an election from the centre ground though (or perception of).

 

[dannyboy]

2017? We lost against the worst Tory party in memory.



I dont see any arrogance to be honest. I saw loads in momentum that they were right and "capitalism will fail". I see the front bench now as a government in waiting. Potentially.






You can only win an election from the centre ground though (or perception of).

The perception is key. The centre ground was slashing public spending 10 years ago, now investing is all the rage. That´s definitely one of Corbyn´s achievements to have moved the debate. Cooper, Burnham and Kendall wouldn´t have got us to the point we are now had they won in 2015.

 

[davek]

I see forensic was the name of the day.View attachment 84366

Coma-inducing should have been.

A murderous government on the loose and that stuffed shirt tells them that he 'of course understands the difficulties'.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

2017? We lost against the worst Tory party in memory.

I dont see any arrogance to be honest. I saw loads in momentum that they were right and "capitalism will fail". I see the front bench now as a government in waiting. Potentially.

You can only win an election from the centre ground though (or perception of).

If we are being honest then we can agree that Momentum was primarily about getting Corbyn into post and keeping him in power. There was a hope/belief that faced with one of the weakest Tory teams in living memory that Corbyn would win the GE. This belief often displayed itself in delusions of superiority from the chosen few on the far left/Momentum and caused massive splits in the party and electorate. Then Corbyn and his team got annihilated as many of us had been warning as a very real concern. Corbyn and Momentum then tried to get his successor RLB into power to continue the project but that is not what Labour want, despite Momentums protestations. I imagine that they can see their attempt to control Labour has failed and that Starmer will use his power to put his influence into place over Lansmans, NEC etc. Great I say.

 

[davek]

If we are being honest then we can agree that Momentum was primarily about getting Corbyn into post and keeping him in power. There was a hope/belief that faced with one of the weakest Tory teams in living memory that Corbyn would win the GE. This belief often displayed itself in delusions of superiority from the chosen few on the far left/Momentum and caused massive splits in the party and electorate. Then Corbyn and his team got annihilated as many of us had been warning as a very real concern. Corbyn and Momentum then tried to get his successor RLB into power to continue the project but that is not what Labour want, despite Momentums protestations. I imagine that they can see their attempt to control Labour has failed and that Starmer will use his power to put his influence into place over Lansmans, NEC etc. Great I say.

If you've read the recent internal party report, how on earth can you say it was Momentum that caused massive splits in the LP when it was, in fact, the right wing of the party determined to reimpose Blairism?

 

[catcherintherye]

I dont see any arrogance to be honest. I saw loads in momentum that they were right and "capitalism will fail". I see the front bench now as a government in waiting. Potentially.

I'm not sure I've ever seen or heard anyone in Momentum say that. Either way, do you not think, the idea as espoused by staff that if people they like don't run the party they can throw their toys out the pram and wreck things, as a fairly arrogant and entitled way to behave?

If that culture is allowed to continue, Labour will not win. As for government in waiting, I don't see it at all. Who are the stand outs in this cabinet? In the latest poll Labour have slink to 20 odd points behind the Conservatives. We look a million miles away from government. Yet we were sold on the idea that just changing Corbyn would lead to this great renaissance and huge poll leads against (as you put it) "the worst Tory party in history" (it's not, the one that Blair faced was).

The truth is this goes much deeper. The rot goes much deeper. There's no magic bullet here, and trying to act like a government in waiting will be massively damaging (as it was for Corbyn when he took advice from people inside Momentum to start pursuing this policy).

 

[catcherintherye]

If you've read the recent internal party report, how on earth can you say it was Momentum that caused massive splits in the LP when it was, in fact, the right wing of the party determined to reimpose Blairism?

The biggest criticism you can level at Momentum is not that they did the things they are accused of, it's that they didn't do the things they were accused of. They stood by and allowed a toxic culture amongst party staff, sexist, misogynistic, threatening and bullying to minorities to continue unchecked. I don't know how you could live with yourself if you were high up in Momentum and didn't try to get these people removed and expelled. Thats the fault of Momentum.

The idea they kicked people out etc. They didn't kick people out. People who have no place in our party.

 

[catcherintherye]

If we are being honest then we can agree that Momentum was primarily about getting Corbyn into post and keeping him in power. There was a hope/belief that faced with one of the weakest Tory teams in living memory that Corbyn would win the GE. This belief often displayed itself in delusions of superiority from the chosen few on the far left/Momentum and caused massive splits in the party and electorate. Then Corbyn and his team got annihilated as many of us had been warning as a very real concern. Corbyn and Momentum then tried to get his successor RLB into power to continue the project but that is not what Labour want, despite Momentums protestations. I imagine that they can see their attempt to control Labour has failed and that Starmer will use his power to put his influence into place over Lansmans, NEC etc. Great I say.

Where are we getting this "it's the worst Tory team in living memory". It's a highly competent team, that won millions of votes. They have successfully engineered Brexit. This sort of arrogance is astounding. They are a very competent electoral machine.

The fact is, the worst Tory admins run from Major through to Howard. That is the period they were at their weakest. We should have buried them then and didn't.

 

[tsubaki]

If we are being honest then we can agree that Momentum was primarily about getting Corbyn into post and keeping him in power. There was a hope/belief that faced with one of the weakest Tory teams in living memory that Corbyn would win the GE. This belief often displayed itself in delusions of superiority from the chosen few on the far left/Momentum and caused massive splits in the party and electorate. Then Corbyn and his team got annihilated as many of us had been warning as a very real concern. Corbyn and Momentum then tried to get his successor RLB into power to continue the project but that is not what Labour want, despite Momentums protestations. I imagine that they can see their attempt to control Labour has failed and that Starmer will use his power to put his influence into place over Lansmans, NEC etc. Great I say.

That isn’t being honest.

Momentum didn’t exist before Corbyn won, though it did emerge from the people involved in that campaign. Almost everyone in it was already in the LP and they wanted the party to do better than it had been doing - something which has been achieved.