Current Affairs The Labour Party

[davek]

Mason is such a jinx it’s untrue.

Here's Mason in a nutshell:




...then 4 hours later he tweets....




An utter ham shank.

 

[tsubaki]

Could it not be argued that those that had been in control of the party prior to Momentum's formation in 2015 and subsequent growth, saw Momentum and Corbyn's take over of their party and either left or stood their ground and ultimately won their party back?

If consider that under Corbyn and Momentum's watch we actually managed to turn lifelong Labour communities into Tory voters - it is quite an achievement! I'm sure there'll be fingers pointing in all directions when considering this but regardless of the variables it is and will remain Corbyn and Momentum's legacy.

I would say there seems to be a general lack of humility coming from those corners of the party and if it is allowed to continue then the party will not move forward as those that can never be wrong are destined to walk in circles and will keep bumping into everyone else.

As I say, it might be best for all if the passionately supported 40,000 odd Momentum members set up another paryt and allowed Labour to get on with the healing the damage. Time will tell whether they can fall into line.

Not at all - the decline in the Labour vote in those communities is of much longer standing than Corbyn - look at what happened in Scotland, or across the north in by-elections and at the 2010 and 2015 GEs. In fact if you want to see that clearly look at 2017, when this faction sat out the campaign/ tried to sabotage it and yet the vote in a lot of seats went up.

Corbyn’s failings did play some role in 2019 though - he never really challenged the Tory record on national security for example (which was a shame as the record is lamentable) - but a bigger role was the way in which (in 2019) Labour figures openly opposed him, which fitted in (by design) with the wider media narrative of a cult overtaking a party and purging moderates. The facts that no one was purged and that the Tories were kicking out MPs of long standing was never mentioned.

People hate to see divided parties and that is what was presented to them, often by people who went on to get jobs with the government afterwards. Of course (and as Starmers election showed) the party itself isn’t divided, extreme or taken over by a cult - it was behind Corbyn as much as it will be behind Starmer.

The problem will come if these people at the top (those that are still there at any rate) aren’t removed because they’re going to do to him what they did to Corbyn, did to Miliband, and did to Blair and Brown in some cases. They are toxic and will inevitably poison it further when they feel the need to do so.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Not at all - the decline in the Labour vote in those communities is of much longer standing than Corbyn - look at what happened in Scotland, or across the north in by-elections and at the 2010 and 2015 GEs. In fact if you want to see that clearly look at 2017, when this faction sat out the campaign/ tried to sabotage it and yet the vote in a lot of seats went up.

Corbyn’s failings did play some role in 2019 though - he never really challenged the Tory record on national security for example (which was a shame as the record is lamentable) - but a bigger role was the way in which (in 2019) Labour figures openly opposed him, which fitted in (by design) with the wider media narrative of a cult overtaking a party and purging moderates. The facts that no one was purged and that the Tories were kicking out MPs of long standing was never mentioned.

People hate to see divided parties and that is what was presented to them, often by people who went on to get jobs with the government afterwards. Of course (and as Starmers election showed) the party itself isn’t divided, extreme or taken over by a cult - it was behind Corbyn as much as it will be behind Starmer.

The problem will come if these people at the top (those that are still there at any rate) aren’t removed because they’re going to do to him what they did to Corbyn, did to Miliband, and did to Blair and Brown in some cases. They are toxic and will inevitably poison it further when they feel the need to do so.

Scotland was a result of rising nationalism and independence driven by the SNP who as a result squeezed Scottish Labour.

The last catastrophe in the GE was Corbyn, he was the leader, the buck stops with him.

For me, Corbyn has been nothing but a failure. Not able to beat what, if we are being honest have been two of the weakest Tory teams in living memory under May and Johnson.

I don't share your optimism that the party isn't divided. I am sure that Corbyn and co were praying for RLB to get to continue the project. I'm not sure that they will have the same influence over or strategic vision as Starmer but we will see.

It concerns me that Momentum's media arm seem to be behind or at least a significant player in these released whatsapp messages/report. There is a feeling of 'we lost and its their fault' pointing at another side of the party. I am sure that we will get the warts and all unless it is just a lot of hot air.

Out of interest, when you say certain people at the top of Labour have got rid of successive leaders, who specifically are you referring to mate?

 

[tsubaki]

Scotland was a result of rising nationalism and independence driven by the SNP who as a result squeezed Scottish Labour.

The last catastrophe in the GE was Corbyn, he was the leader, the buck stops with him.

For me, Corbyn has been nothing but a failure. Not able to beat what, if we are being honest have been two of the weakest Tory teams in living memory under May and Johnson.

I don't share your optimism that the party isn't divided. I am sure that Corbyn and co were praying for RLB to get to continue the project. I'm not sure that they will have the same influence over or strategic vision as Starmer but we will see.

It concerns me that Momentum's media arm seem to be behind or at least a significant player in these released whatsapp messages/report. There is a feeling of 'we lost and its their fault' pointing at another side of the party. I am sure that we will get the warts and all unless it is just a lot of hot air.

Out of interest, when you say certain people at the top of Labour have got rid of successive leaders, who specifically are you referring to mate?

well, though he is no longer there, Watson did brief against / try to get rid of three out of the last four

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

well, though he is no longer there, Watson did brief against / try to get rid of three out of the last four

You had me worried for a minute there mate, I thought you were going to tell me that there was some Illuminati like cabal sat above the party

With regards to Watson though that is just politics isn't it, human ambition regardless of how misguided. Remember Gove stitching Johnson up

Long knives everywhere with these political types.

 

[tsubaki]

You had me worried for a minute there mate, I thought you were going to tell me that there was some Illuminati like cabal sat above the party

With regards to Watson though that is just politics isn't it, human ambition regardless of how misguided. Remember Gove stitching Johnson up

Long knives everywhere with these political types.

Ambition I can forgive, but these were nonentities being employed by the party to do jobs that they were apparently sabotaging.

What makes it worse is the fact that they were rubbish at their jobs anyway, as shown by their Machiavellian plots being trashed by a seventy year old Gooner who spent his free time at an allotment and was interested in drain covers.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Ambition I can forgive, but these were nonentities being employed by the party to do jobs that they were apparently sabotaging.

What makes it worse is the fact that they were rubbish at their jobs anyway, as shown by their Machiavellian plots being trashed by a seventy year old Gooner who spent his free time at an allotment and was interested in drain covers.

That was as much to do with Lansman, Rees, Klug and co as anything else though if we are being fair.

 

[ramacca]

No wonder Starmer et al don't want the report published as it hangs out the right wing/centrists dirty washing.

Leaked Labour report shows Wallasey members WERE stitched up over ‘Brickgate’

 

[tsubaki]

That was as much to do with Lansman, Rees, Klug and co as anything else though if we are being fair.

Perhaps, but that isn't really an excuse for the people who saw themselves as the elite. FFS how bad do you have to be to put stuff like that on WhatsApp?

 

[peteblue]

No wonder Starmer et al don't want the report published as it hangs out the right wing/centrists dirty washing.

Leaked Labour report shows Wallasey members WERE stitched up over ‘Brickgate’

Well, at least we now know what Corbyn and his merry men have been doing in the 4 months since he was comprehensively beaten in the GE, re-writing history......it was all a plot......

 

[davek]

Well, at least we now know what Corbyn and his merry men have been doing in the 4 months since he was comprehensively beaten in the GE, re-writing history......it was all a plot......

We know what your leader's been doing in that time period too: preparing the scene for a mass murder.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Perhaps, but that isn't really an excuse for the people who saw themselves as the elite. FFS how bad do you have to be to put stuff like that on WhatsApp?

A bit out of time but let he who is without sin throw the first stone.

 

[davek]

Starmer: "What's your lockdown exit plan?"

FFS, maybe do your job first - start tearing a massive 'kin strip off these government butchers.

 

[Agent Blue]

Just watching QT tonight.
Nandy getting to grips with the gov tonight, she has lot's to say and they just seem to be incapable of shutting her up!

 

[davek]

Just watching QT tonight.
Nandy getting to grips with the gov tonight, she has lot's to say and they just seem to be incapable of shutting her up!

Not nearly enough. That Tory scum breezed through without being nailed on face masks and the HanCOCK "guarantee" to have 100,000 tests per day by end of April. The toady little get was sent out to get the message across that the target is/was just an ambition.

Nandy shouldn't be doing this stuff, she isn't a scientist or medical, and her portfolio is for foreign affairs. Mind you, I wouldn't put that 'kin mess Ashworth on there either, and he IS shadow health secretary...and a useless get to boot.

Labour need to massively increase the volume of criticism.