Current Affairs The Labour Party

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dholliday said:
Like what? Extreme wealth, if used within industry, has a lot of benefits to society, including the working classes: the created industry creates jobs, which enhances spending, which then benefits the economy, which brings in more taxes for the government, which benefits the support systems for the poor & disabled.
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I'm not saying that there's absolutely no need for private industry, please do not conflate this point.

My argument is that the free market has failed in the sort of wealth distribution required to keep societies needs and wants met.

Look at this graph:

1537812987353.webp

Are we going to pretend that this isn't a thing?
 
roydo said:
A lot of companies in the UK do it as well. But HMRC get hardly any tax from it. Under his idea/scam they will; a lot. Back of an envelope exercise suggests £1 Billion, plus, from Shell alone. Every year.

But it wont actually be a tax as such, more the Government taking dividends directly from the companies as a sort of shareholder, but they actually wont hold the shares.

Some might call it theft.
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It's more the seat on the board that empowers them, the dividends wouldn't necessarily amount to a lot individually.
 
Number_25 said:
Are we going to pretend that this isn't a thing?
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It is a thing but it's not as bad as you think it is. There's less poverty in the world than there has ever been. Many of Britain's working class have 'moved up' to lower-middle in the last 20 years, many of them own smartphones & flat TV's...their equivalents (owning expensive consumer goods) back in the 70's & 80's would've been unthinkable, despite cheaper rents back then.

Things are looking up, and it's largely thanks to extreme wealth (because of how it's distributed in a capitalist society in form of creating industry).
 
dholliday said:
Like what? Extreme wealth, if used for industry, has a lot of benefits to society, including the working classes: the created industry creates jobs, which enhances spending, which then benefits the economy, which brings in more taxes for the government, which benefits the support systems for the poor & disabled.
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That simply hasn't worked. The idea of trickle down economics is a falsehood borne out by the fact the wealthier have massively increased their value while the less well off have had real term cuts and a drop in living standards.
Theoretically it's a seller, in reality it was a huge con trick akin to a ponzi scheme.
 
dholliday said:
It is a thing but it's not as bad as you think it is. There's less poverty in the world than there has ever been. Many of Britain's working class have 'moved up' to lower-middle in the last 20 years, many of them own smartphones & flat TV's...their equivalents (owning expensive consumer goods) back in the 70's & 80's would've been unthinkable, despite cheaper rents back then.

Things are looking up, and it's largely thanks to extreme wealth (because of how it's distributed in a capitalist society in form of creating industry).
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I spend 70% of my wage on rent.
 
dholliday said:
It is a thing but it's not as bad as you think it is. There's less poverty in the world than there has ever been. Many of Britain's working class have 'moved up' to lower-middle in the last 20 years, many of them own smartphones & flat TV's...their equivalents (owning expensive consumer goods) back in the 70's & 80's would've been unthinkable, despite cheaper rents back then.

Things are looking up, and it's largely thanks to extreme wealth (because of how it's distributed in a capitalist society in form of creating industry).
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There's a problem in this scenario, the increase of benefit dependency, food banks and homelessness among those who are working and struggling to exist on the wages available.
You cannot use items such as smartphones, televisions or computers as comparative when they are such intrinsic parts of life in society in general, computers/smartphones are to a degree necessities these days to access the social fabric in many forms from job searches, bill paying, shopping etc
 
roydo said:
If there is one subject we will agree on, its the housing/rental market.

Its been bust for decades.
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We need to fix that.

We also need to fix a lot of other injustices. We have a fake economy, and we can't pretend that everything's alright.

Believe it or not, I'm not some sort of dogmatic neo-Marxist with some sort of academic view of the world. I'm far from that.
 
Number_25 said:
We need to fix that.

We also need to fix a lot of other injustices. We have a fake economy, and we can't pretend that everything's alright.

Believe it or not, I'm not some sort of dogmatic neo-Marxist with some sort of academic view of the world. I'm far from that.
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Demographics will fix the housing issue mate, believe you me. Because quite simply, thats exactly what has caused it. Short term, houses can get built, as they always have, but the demand will plummet over the coming decade or 2.

I fully expect to see the numerous OAP residential homes in my town to be populated by probably my grandchildren.
 
roydo said:
A lot of companies in the UK do it as well. But HMRC get hardly any tax from it. Under his idea/scam they will; a lot. Back of an envelope exercise suggests £1 Billion, plus, from Shell alone. Every year.

But it wont actually be a tax as such, more the Government taking dividends directly from the companies as a sort of shareholder, but they actually wont hold the shares.

Some might call it theft.
Click to expand...

Some might say the bailing out of wreckless financial institutions was theft also.
 
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