Current Affairs The Labour Party

[roydo]

At least wait untul there's a policy document.

Just commenting on what he said.

 

[roydo]

Some might say the bailing out of wreckless financial institutions was theft also.

Some might. Others might say that a failure of capitalism can only be rescued by socialism.

 

[zzr45]

I'm not saying that there's absolutely no need for private industry, please do not conflate this point.

My argument is that the free market has failed in the sort of wealth distribution required to keep societies needs and wants met.

Look at this graph:

View attachment 49910

Are we going to pretend that this isn't a thing?

You realise that’s a really poor graph right? Some might say the particular scale has been used for full emotional effect. There's no disputing the CEO's get paid too much, but that sort of manipulation of data is just weird.

 

[peteblue]

Like what? Extreme wealth, if used for industry, has a lot of benefits to society, including the working classes: the created industry creates jobs, which enhances spending, which then benefits the economy, which brings in more taxes for the government, which benefits the support systems for the poor & disabled.

There’s no way he’s going to understand that.....

 

[peteblue]

I'm not saying that there's absolutely no need for private industry, please do not conflate this point.

My argument is that the free market has failed in the sort of wealth distribution required to keep societies needs and wants met.

Look at this graph:

View attachment 49910

Are we going to pretend that this isn't a thing?

I agree. CEO’s are paid too much without doubt. But then again almost all EPL football players earn more than people who run multi million pound companies and employ thousands of people. So when you start a campaign to reduce footballers wages I’m with you......

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

I agree. CEO’s are paid too much without doubt. But then again almost all EPL football players earn more than people who run multi million pound companies and employ thousands of people. So when you start a campaign to reduce footballers wages I’m with you......

Oh dear, there is big difference between essential services being in public ownerships and EPL footballer wages. Project confabulation footballer wages.

 

[dholliday]

That simply hasn't worked. The idea of trickle down economics is a falsehood borne out by the fact the wealthier have massively increased their value while the less well off have had real term cuts and a drop in living standards.
Theoretically it's a seller, in reality it was a huge con trick akin to a ponzi scheme.

There's a problem in this scenario, the increase of benefit dependency, food banks and homelessness among those who are working and struggling to exist on the wages available.
You cannot use items such as smartphones, televisions or computers as comparative when they are such intrinsic parts of life in society in general, computers/smartphones are to a degree necessities these days to access the social fabric in many forms from job searches, bill paying, shopping etc

It's worked for me, my extended family and almost everyone else I've personally known. We were breadline working class during the recession years of the early-90's. Chips-n-beans was the staple, with own brand white bread in-between. I used to get told off for putting one slice of ham on a single white-bread slice as that was a waste when i should be putting one slice of ham between two white bread slices (as it would fill my belly while making the ham last longer).

That was a common situation for many working class, but is less so now.

And smartphones are a total luxury. We've had them marketed to us as if they're essential but they're clearly not. A mobile phone, I grant you. You can get them for 20 quid. Internet connection at home, sure. But the latest iphone for a grand plus expensive monthly contracts? Utter luxury. Yet many so-called working class have such expensive luxury consumer goods nowadays.

I spend 70% of my wage on rent.

So what? It's your choice. I agree expensive rents are a big problem, but people are still free to move elsewhere. Despite what you hear the North has plenty of jobs about.

You have to understand what a free market is. It's the people themselves, you too, that are just at fault as big business or the government for making Britain so BigCity-centric (assuming you live in a big city). When I was early-20's, despite having a good job my money still ran out a week before payday...because I chose to live in a big city which swallows money very quickly. I could've done factory or greenhouse work in small towns in Yorkshire, that would've left me with a few hundred quid left over every month.

Free market...I'm glad we live in one, because we get to choose what kind of life we want.

Demographics will fix the housing issue mate, believe you me. Because quite simply, thats exactly what has caused it. Short term, houses can get built, as they always have, but the demand will plummet over the coming decade or 2.

Not quite, mate. There will be more immigration to offset exactly that problem of more older people/less children. More immigration means more housing demand.

A lot depends on what happens with Brexit...

There’s no way he’s going to understand that.....

Yeah, I know.

I agree. CEO’s are paid too much without doubt. But then again almost all EPL football players earn more than people who run multi million pound companies and employ thousands of people. So when you start a campaign to reduce footballers wages I’m with you......

CEO's are demonised for some reason, but if it wasn't for them many from the working classes wouldn't be in the comfortable position they are now.

The options are out there for people to seize the day for themselves, to develop, to work, to be content with small comforts.

 

[peteblue]

Oh dear, there is big difference between essential services being in public ownerships and EPL footballer wages. Project confabulation footballer wages.

I happen to know the CEO of one of the water companies. He earns his money.....

 

[hullefc]

McDonell is going g to give me £500 minus 10% tax = £450, that I don't get now. Well done John. That will go part of the way to me getting back the 6 grand stolen from me when my pension age was increased to 66.

 

[hullefc]

The wettest place on the planet Northern Ireland had a hosepipe ban. Because,? No investment in treatment facilities. No wonder Labour want to take it back under some form of public control.

 

[dholliday]

McDonell is going g to give me £500 minus 10% tax = £450, that I don't get now. Well done John. That will go part of the way to me getting back the 6 grand stolen from me when my pension age was increased to 66.

pension ages are increasing everywhere in the world, due to better healthcare thanks to healthy economies providing booming medical industries. You're gonna live longer on average than your parents or grandparents...how do you expect society to pay for your longer pension? There needs to be a workable system in place.

And you speak of stealing...

 

[hullefc]

pension ages are increasing everywhere in the world, due to better healthcare thanks to healthy economies providing booming medical industries. You're gonna live longer on average than your parents or grandparents...how do you expect society to pay for your longer pension? There needs to be a workable system in place.

And you speak of stealing...

When I started work the post 45 agreement was for people to retire at 65. Raising it by a year meant the government stole over £6 grand from me.

 

[dholliday]

When I started work the post 45 agreement was for people to retire at 65. Raising it by a year meant the government stole over £6 grand from me.

No they didn't. You didn't answer my question: how do you expect society to pay for all these longer pensions?

There's really only two responses:

1) increase pension age
2) increase immigration

as the alternative response none of us want: which is the government running out of money which crashes the economy, causes massive inflation and ends up decreasing life-expectancy due to medical industries also crashing.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

And smartphones are a total luxury. We've had them marketed to us as if they're essential but they're clearly not. A mobile phone, I grant you. You can get them for 20 quid. Internet connection at home, sure. But the latest iphone for a grand plus expensive monthly contracts? Utter luxury. Yet many so-called working class have such expensive luxury consumer goods nowadays

Are they a total luxury, at the expense of TV, PC, home landline for phone and Broadband many smart phones are cost effective way to be connected to modern Britain, from social use, banking, looking for work etc. Besides now house owning is out of the reach of many they are to be finger wagged for having a smart phone, one of the few things they can get a loan for and credit history....

I happen to know the CEO of one of the water companies. He earns his money.....

Poor him/her I happen to know plenty of care workers, known as 'walkers', walking upto 15 miles a day and night supporting people in their homes, they don't earn nearly enough for what they do.

 

[peteblue]

Are they a total luxury, at the expense of TV, PC, home landline for phone and Broadband many smart phones are cost effective way to be connected to modern Britain, from social use, banking, looking for work etc. Besides now house owning is out of the reach of many they are to be finger wagged for having a smart phone, one of the few things they can get a loan for and credit history....



Poor him/her I happen to know plenty of care workers, known as 'walkers', walking upto 15 miles a day and night supporting people in their homes, they don't earn nearly enough for what they do.

We were comparing CEO’s and footballers. Would you like to compare footballers and care workers instead.....