Current Affairs The Labour Party

[The binman chronicles]

The centre left in Labour are using this to get rid of the policies put forward in the manifesto, Tories all over the media saying the public rejected the polices, it's utter rubbish.

The smear campaign against Corbyn worked, people don't like him, they won't vote for him, that and the stance on brexit to offer a 2nd Ref and turn their backs on Labour leave voters was their downfall.

It is as simple as that, but the Tory media are using this to make out Labour is dead.

Let Johnson get on with brexit and all the pitfalls that entails for him, get a good leader to head Labour and the party can rise again ready for the next election where brexit if done badly, will destroy the Tory vote.

It is not the leader, it was leader + policies, if you can't see that you are actively helping the Tories win the next election. Do you want them to be in power for 20 years? If the policies were fine and universally adored they would have provided a decent counter weight to the lure of brexit. Only a minority want a huge state, they don't trust the government to do things right. The majority aren't using food banks so instead of trying to appeal more to that set, any Labour government should be appealing to the majority who want things to carry on as per usual but provide the compassionate safety net that one of the richest countries should be able to provide.

 

[Tubey]

I get the impression that this guy had never even met anyone from the working class until he ventured into the dark lands of Bedford and Milton Keynes. His comment on talking to some young working class people: "It was amazing to see how quickly and instinctively they grasped a left wing agenda while saying they had never thought of it before."

This is true of Corbynism in general.

Corbyn doesn't have a clue about a working class family in Liverpool. He's as clueless as Johnson is in that regard. He's a London-based privileged Marxist who sees the 'poor' as an amorphous stereotypical blob that's the same everywhere; to be pitied, who don't have a chance in life, who need state intervention to not effectively starve to death.

The reality is the working class can afford broadband ffs.

 

[Khalekan]

Thanks for proving my point about being condescending.



That means talking down to people.

The last resort of the gullible.

Point out the absolute stupidity of what they have done in swallowing the lies of Johnson, Farage et al and the only response is " you are being condescending to me".

That is what happens when people have no sensible reason for acting as they have acted.

 

[PhilM]

This is true of Corbynism in general.

Corbyn doesn't have a clue about a working class family in Liverpool. He's as clueless as Johnson is in that regard. He's a London-based privileged Marxist who sees the 'poor' as an amorphous stereotypical blob that's the same everywhere; to be pitied, who don't have a chance in life, who need state intervention to not effectively starve to death.

The reality is the working class can afford broadband ffs.

I dislike the term in general, however it wreaks of 'champaign socialism': preach to the lower echelons of society yet having no comprehension of their real lives.

With no fault of his own, Corbyn grew up in a privileged home, received a private education and now owns two high-end homes, with one worth well above £1m.

Now that shouldn't mean he can't have convictions to the left, far from it, but it's a world away from the world that many of his supporters live and suffer in.

So, there must be to some extent alienation and that brings about condescension. It's equally the same for Johnson and co., but I do wonder which is greater.

Who is closest to their electorate: Corbyn to the lowest of your average Labour voter or Johnson (with his privileged background) to the lowest of his typical voter?

 

[nsno-chris]

The last resort of the gullible.

Point out the absolute stupidity of what they have done in swallowing the lies of Johnson, Farage et al and the only response is " you are being condescending to me".

That is what happens when people have no sensible reason for acting as they have acted.

what happens if they didn’t feel like Corbyn didn’t appeal to them, like the majority of people I know. Didn’t like his huge nanny state.

its ridiculous to try and understand what others are thinking without actually knowing their reasons. Just saying they’ve swallowed lies is the weakest of arguments and following a narrative of “the media keeping us down”.

The reality is people don’t actually like him, McDonnell, Abbott, Thornberry and others sitting on his shadow cabinet. They have no idea what the working class is, just what they want it to mean

 

[dannyboy]

It is not the leader, it was leader + policies, if you can't see that you are actively helping the Tories win the next election. Do you want them to be in power for 20 years? If the policies were fine and universally adored they would have provided a decent counter weight to the lure of brexit. Only a minority want a huge state, they don't trust the government to do things right. The majority aren't using food banks so instead of trying to appeal more to that set, any Labour government should be appealing to the majority who want things to carry on as per usual but provide the compassionate safety net that one of the richest countries should be able to provide.

If that´s the case then what is the actual point? If the whole reason the Labour Party exists is to add a few quid onto unemployment benefit then we are wasting our time. Thatcher ripped apart the consensus in a way no one ever thought she could, Labour need to do that as well. It´s all about the message, it´s all about who is delivering the message and partly it is about capitalising on any luck that is thrown your way.

We can´t just continue to drift further and further to the right every sodding election. It is day two of a 5 year Tory administration and we have already a Tory MP advocating a private insurance scheme for your own care later in life.

 

[davmaher]

This is true of Corbynism in general.

Corbyn doesn't have a clue about a working class family in Liverpool. He's as clueless as Johnson is in that regard. He's a London-based privileged Marxist who sees the 'poor' as an amorphous stereotypical blob that's the same everywhere; to be pitied, who don't have a chance in life, who need state intervention to not effectively starve to death.

The reality is the working class can afford broadband ffs.

I get the impression that is now the position with the key policy makers and supporters within the party. I'm expecting his replacement will be no different and that nothing will really change in policies or direction. Part of the guy's Twitter thread is him saying that Momentum are not the problem, they are part of the answer. I also thought it was pertinent and ironic that he had his "Road to Damascus" moment when he was out on the streets actually talking to working class people and yet gives better use of social media as one of the key ways Labour can get its message through to the working class. There was a break-down of social media hits by party on the BBC this morning. Labour "won" on all of the metrics they used. As an example, videos posted on Jeremy Corbyn's Facebook account got 72,400,000 views compared to Boris Johnson's 14,400,000. This says to me that using Facebook or any other social media to influence people is pretty much a waste of time. My guess would be that the young working class people that Luke Pagarani spoke to don't really do Facebook, or not in any way that he seems to think they do. Going around and talking to people is more difficult, but its still worth doing.

 

[The binman chronicles]

If that´s the case then what is the actual point? If the whole reason the Labour Party exists is to add a few quid onto unemployment benefit then we are wasting our time. Thatcher ripped apart the consensus in a way no one ever thought she could, Labour need to do that as well. It´s all about the message, it´s all about who is delivering the message and partly it is about capitalising on any luck that is thrown your way.

We can´t just continue to drift further and further to the right every sodding election. It is day two of a 5 year Tory administration and we have already a Tory MP advocating a private insurance scheme for your own care later in life.

We've drifted ever more left over 4 elections and where has that gotten us? The question is was life better for the majority during the centre left Labour government or now?

You kind of answered your own question of what is the point, because there are people there now advocating stuff like that. Exactly why Labour has to be in power but they can only do that by not trying to smash the system. Win power and evolve over 2/3 terms to more what you want - don't say from day one hundred it will all be different as no one will believe it.

 

[Khalekan]

what happens if they didn’t feel like Corbyn didn’t appeal to them, like the majority of people I know. Didn’t like his huge nanny state.

its ridiculous to try and understand what others are thinking without actually knowing their reasons. Just saying they’ve swallowed lies is the weakest of arguments and following a narrative of “the media keeping us down”.

The reality is people don’t actually like him, McDonnell, Abbott, Thornberry and others sitting on his shadow cabinet. They have no idea what the working class is, just what they want it to mean

Leave Corbyn aside for a second......it is not really about him.

He didn’t start the Brexit fiasco.

Anyone who swallowed all that Brexit bollox about “taking back control” and £350 million a week for the NHS” in the first place and who still want Brexit despite it being shown to have all been bollox are gullible.

That is just the way of it.....and now we will all have to pay the price of their gullibility with five, probably ten at least, of an even more right wing government than Thatcher.

Sorry Chris....I am done giving gammon the benefit of the doubt.

 

[nsno-chris]

Leave Corbyn aside for a second......it is not really about him.

He didn’t start the Brexit fiasco.

Anyone who swallowed all that Brexit bollox about “taking back control” and £350 million a week for the NHS” in the first place and who still want Brexit despite it being shown to have all been bollox are gullible.

That is just the way of it.....and now we will all have to pay the price of their gullibility with five, probably ten at least, of an even more right wing government than Thatcher.

Sorry Chris....I am done giving gammon the benefit of the doubt.

it goes well before that Brexit billboard, it’s why UKIP was getting more and more support in working class areas because they believed they were not being heard by the political elite.

That on the ground campaigning within these areas was missed, they should have nipped this in the bud as soon as Farage was gaining. They ignored it and they ignored the views of their hardened supporters, whether those views were right or wrong, it should have been a concern.

It wasn’t, they’re London centric and it’s been proven, it’s set them back a decade or two. The fact that coal mining towns, ruined by thatcher, turned to the tories tells the story of the Labour Party

 

[Khalekan]

it goes well before that Brexit billboard, it’s why UKIP was getting more and more support in working class areas because they believed they were not being heard by the political elite.

That on the ground campaigning within these areas was missed, they should have nipped this in the bud as soon as Farage was gaining. They ignored it and they ignored the views of their hardened supporters, whether those views were right or wrong, it should have been a concern.

It wasn’t, they’re London centric and it’s been proven, it’s set them back a decade or two. The fact that coal mining towns, ruined by thatcher, turned to the tories tells the story of the Labour Party

Sod them, Chris.

They sicken me.

They make me sorry I went on picket lines and demos to support them in those bleak days in 1984/85.

They might be dissatisfied with Labour......but stone me, turning to the Tories?

Really?

@davek puts it best......forelock touching serfs.

 

[Catfish Blues]

The last resort of the gullible.

Point out the absolute stupidity of what they have done in swallowing the lies of Johnson, Farage et al and the only response is " you are being condescending to me".

That is what happens when people have no sensible reason for acting as they have acted.

Oh, right, so you think calling people thick is the solution ?
Because, if you really believe that ( and i hope you don't ), then you're as much part of the problem as Johnson et al. We need to talk to those people, not call them thick.

 

[neil999]

Mcdonnell gone...

 

[edge]

We've drifted ever more left over 4 elections and where has that gotten us? The question is was life better for the majority during the centre left Labour government or now?

You kind of answered your own question of what is the point, because there are people there now advocating stuff like that. Exactly why Labour has to be in power but they can only do that by not trying to smash the system. Win power and evolve over 2/3 terms to more what you want - don't say from day one hundred it will all be different as no one will believe it.

Len mccluskey has done an article today about how he has seen it going wrong as a municipal London way of thinking and there values has taken hold within the party without any any thought for the northern heartlands own set of values that may seen to be different, suppose the GE has proven that really, but bit rich from him as he has been signed a lot of the stuff off that was brought to the table.

 

[Tin-Tin]

But Corbyn is dreadful? Seems like he struck a chord with the younger voters.