Current Affairs The Labour Party

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Bruce Wayne said:
He's not saying that though is he? You said yourself that absolutely no details as to the precise nature of the relationship have been disclosed, meaning it could be everything from the Norwegian relationship to the Namibian relationship, both of whom have 'access to the single market'.
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Bruce, if you are going to refer to what I wrote then you could at least refer accurately to it. I said that Labour "would want some form of shared institutions with the EU, a customs union (not the customs union) and a say in trade deals that the bloc would sign" based on the letter Corbyn sent to Verhofstadt earlier this year.

Verhofstadt did not say "this is more pie in the sky twaddle".
 
tsubaki said:
Bruce, if you are going to refer to what I wrote then you could at least refer accurately to it. I said that Labour "would want some form of shared institutions with the EU, a customs union (not the customs union) and a say in trade deals that the bloc would sign" based on the letter Corbyn sent to Verhofstadt earlier this year.

Verhofstadt did not say "this is more pie in the sky twaddle".
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No, he said this

 
Bruce Wayne said:
Or his comments earlier this month that the LD's stance is the natural one of any party that wants to stop Brexit

www.independent.co.uk

Liberal Democrat policy to revoke Article 50 is ‘natural stance’ for stopping Brexit, Guy Verhofstadt says

The European parliament’s Brexit coordinator is attending the annual conference of Jo Swinson’s party
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
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The natural one of any party that wants to stop Brexit? When they have had that policy for two weeks (or three days, if you want to count when Conference accepted it)?

In fact, why do the Lib Dems not get criticized by you when their Brexit policy has been at least as much all over the place as Labours?
 
tsubaki said:
No, he said what the article quoted him as saying. Your clip is from two months after that, and in a completely different context.
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Ah, so his more recent comment is somehow less accurate than his comment from February saying that cross-party cooperation is vital, not that Corbyn's five sentences are somehow the silver bullet to solving Brexit? Even then, I would be utterly amazed if Corbyn's plan passed parliament, not least because 60 or so of his own MPs opposed it, and it makes no mention of free movement of capital and services that are so important for our service-based economy (especially our biggest industry - finance). This is like his 'campaigning' during the referendum itself. Half hearted and impotent.
 
tsubaki said:
The natural one of any party that wants to stop Brexit? When they have had that policy for two weeks (or three days, if you want to count when Conference accepted it)?

In fact, why do the Lib Dems not get criticized by you when their Brexit policy has been at least as much all over the place as Labours?
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I've criticised the LDs several times this week, but you get the sense that Corbyn could fart and some on here would regale it as the best symphony since Mozart. Not all old blokes with beards are Jesus you know.
 
tsubaki said:
The natural one of any party that wants to stop Brexit? When they have had that policy for two weeks (or three days, if you want to count when Conference accepted it)?

In fact, why do the Lib Dems not get criticized by you when their Brexit policy has been at least as much all over the place as Labours?
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Glad to see you admit that both Labour and LibDem Policy is all over the place......
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Ah, so his more recent comment is somehow less accurate than his comment from February saying that cross-party cooperation is vital, not that Corbyn's five sentences are somehow the silver bullet to solving Brexit? Even then, I would be utterly amazed if Corbyn's plan passed parliament, not least because 60 or so of his own MPs opposed it, and it makes no mention of free movement of capital and services that are so important for our service-based economy (especially our biggest industry - finance). This is like his 'campaigning' during the referendum itself. Half hearted and impotent.
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I'd urge you to read all of that Independent article:

Sources with knowledge of the meeting between Mr Tusk and the prime minister said the president told Ms May that “the Corbyn plan could be a promising way out of the impasse”, according to Buzzfeed News.

EU officials who examined the Labour plan believe it to be broadly in line with EU negotiating guidelines, the website says.
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So yes, a cross party deal on that basis - if May had accepted it and enough of both Labour and Tory MPs voted with their leaderships - really would have passed the Commons. It really would have given us a way out of this mess. As for "it makes no mention of free movement of capital and services", why do you think that would be one of Labour's red lines when they have said (at least as far as I am aware) nothing about whether it would be, or when anything would be?

Finally - why some people here support Corbyn. I can't answer for anyone else but personally I think it is more that some people want to talk about what he actually says, wheras other people want to talk about what they think he said and attack him on that basis. Take this debate for instance - we've had three pages of chat about why Labour's proposal would be totally unworkable based on a belief that the EU would find it totally unworkable, even though there are reports that they wouldn't and would actually consider it, and because of the red lines that Labour have preventing what they want to do, when noone has presented evidence that there are any.
 
tsubaki said:
I'd urge you to read all of that Independent article:



So yes, a cross party deal on that basis - if May had accepted it and enough of both Labour and Tory MPs voted with their leaderships - really would have passed the Commons. It really would have given us a way out of this mess. As for "it makes no mention of free movement of capital and services", why do you think that would be one of Labour's red lines when they have said (at least as far as I am aware) nothing about whether it would be, or when anything would be?

Finally - why some people here support Corbyn. I can't answer for anyone else but personally I think it is more that some people want to talk about what he actually says, wheras other people want to talk about what they think he said and attack him on that basis. Take this debate for instance - we've had three pages of chat about why Labour's proposal would be totally unworkable based on a belief that the EU would find it totally unworkable, even though there are reports that they wouldn't and would actually consider it, and because of the red lines that Labour have preventing what they want to do, when noone has presented evidence that there are any.
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Let's just remember that May's withdrawal agreement had support from the EU too, and it tanked in Westminster. That Tusk gave it lukewarm support is hardly a guarantee that Jezzer will be the saviour of Brexit, much less an indication that he'd do any better job of it than May herself. And just for clarification, I think the EU are sick of us, but there are no shortage of proposals that 'they' would find workable. It's the British parliament that are the sticking point, and as we've seen with his attempts to rally the opposition ranks, let alone pull in moderate Tories, Corbyn is catnip to a great many parliamentarians, so you'll have to forgive me if I find the idea of him rounding up enough people to pass any Brexit deal extremely remote.
 
peteblue said:
I think Mr Corbyn is taking the proverbial......
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Not his fault that his political opponents and biased media have dressed him up as some mind control Marxist socialist and now clucking like the morning call when he demonstrates yet again he is more than comfortable to let people decide. The cognitive dissonance applied to Corbyn by his opponents are some of the finest examples double think.
 
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