Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Jebus_lives]

With the greatest of respect. What? Its total double speak. Christ for 3 years we have been having this, surely to God, the leader of a major party should be able to actually say In or Out.

The referendum was a simple In or Out in part because there was a desire for a right vs wrong decision. It suits a simplistic media narrative to have things reduced to In or Out but shouldn't necessarily be the only viewpoints for discussion, especially for a political party which is a very broad church.

Corbyn risks alienating each side equally if he picks a side, so the move to suggest he is neutral is a sensible one, if not necessarily a marketable one.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

where did Corbyn say he wouldn't sign up to some obligations?

You wrote barely a few minutes ago that we would have similar access to the single market as we have now, which would involve free movement of people, which presumably Corbyn doesn't support, and in which case you said a few posts before that that single market access was ditched as an aspiration last year.

Maybe I've misunderstood things, but it sounds like they initially wanted single market access, but now just want all of the trappings of single market access but without actually being in the single market, yet would still retain things like free movement as that's an obligation (I would say a benefit but y'know) that the EU won't budge on. All of which makes it single market in all but name?

I hope that's wrong or it appears Mr Corbyn is taking the proverbial.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The referendum was a simple In or Out in part because there was a desire for a right vs wrong decision. It suits a simplistic media narrative to have things reduced to In or Out but shouldn't necessarily be the only viewpoints for discussion, especially for a political party which is a very broad church.

Corbyn risks alienating each side equally if he picks a side, so the move to suggest he is neutral is a sensible one, if not necessarily a marketable one.

I'd be much happier to accept a nuanced position if he went beyond the simplistic media narrative of in or out with something slightly more than 'it depends'.

 

[peteblue]

You wrote barely a few minutes ago that we would have similar access to the single market as we have now, which would involve free movement of people, which presumably Corbyn doesn't support, and in which case you said a few posts before that that single market access was ditched as an aspiration last year.

Maybe I've misunderstood things, but it sounds like they initially wanted single market access, but now just want all of the trappings of single market access but without actually being in the single market, yet would still retain things like free movement as that's an obligation (I would say a benefit but y'know) that the EU won't budge on. All of which makes it single market in all but name?

I hope that's wrong or it appears Mr Corbyn is taking the proverbial.

I think Mr Corbyn is taking the proverbial......

 

[tsubaki]

You wrote barely a few minutes ago that we would have similar access to the single market as we have now, which would involve free movement of people, which presumably Corbyn doesn't support, and in which case you said a few posts before that that single market access was ditched as an aspiration last year.

Maybe I've misunderstood things, but it sounds like they initially wanted single market access, but now just want all of the trappings of single market access but without actually being in the single market, yet would still retain things like free movement as that's an obligation (I would say a benefit but y'know) that the EU won't budge on. All of which makes it single market in all but name?

I hope that's wrong or it appears Mr Corbyn is taking the proverbial.

No, I wrote that Labour wanted to have similar access to the Single Market, and before that I wrote that Labour did not want to stay in the Single Market, based on an article from last year.

Labour has repeatedly said that they want access to the market but they have not set out (as far as I am aware) any red lines over what they would absolutely not accept in order to get that access; what they have said is that they would want some form of shared institutions with the EU, a customs union (not the customs union) and a say in trade deals that the bloc would sign (and the EU, or at least Verhofstadt, did respond positively to Corbyn suggesting that as part of a cross-party deal).

 

[Jebus_lives]

I'd be much happier to accept a nuanced position if he went beyond the simplistic media narrative of in or out with something slightly more than 'it depends'.

It's not 'it depends' though. It's one of neutrality and a commitment to honour the more nuanced decision of the British people.

 

[peteblue]

It's not 'it depends' though. It's one of neutrality and a commitment to honour the more nuanced decision if the British people.

If the British people what ?.....

 

[Jebus_lives]

If the British people what ?.....

Of*

 

[Bruce Wayne]

No, I wrote that Labour wanted to have similar access to the Single Market, and before that I wrote that Labour did not want to stay in the Single Market, based on an article from last year.

Labour has repeatedly said that they want access to the market but they have not set out (as far as I am aware) any red lines over what they would absolutely not accept in order to get that access; what they have said is that they would want some form of shared institutions with the EU, a customs union (not the customs union) and a say in trade deals that the bloc would sign (and the EU, or at least Verhofstadt, did respond positively to Corbyn suggesting that as part of a cross-party deal).

So access to the single market without being in it? That's utterly absurd and is no better than Johnson and Leave.EU's pledges during the referendum. Every country on the planet has access to the single market (bar any with specific trade embargoes), so of course Britain would have access to it. How is that a position? Remember we're supposed to be dealing in something more sophisticated than the twaddle served up by the other parties. This is more pie in the sky twaddle.

 

[tsubaki]

So access to the single market without being in it? That's utterly absurd and is no better than Johnson and Leave.EU's pledges during the referendum. Every country on the planet has access to the single market (bar any with specific trade embargoes), so of course Britain would have access to it. How is that a position? Remember we're supposed to be dealing in something more sophisticated than the twaddle served up by the other parties. This is more pie in the sky twaddle.

So basically something that other states have negotiated with the EU is pie in the sky twaddle? Well done.

 

[peteblue]

Of*

But I thought we, the British people were not allowed to make a decision without it being traduced and overturned by those who know better.....

 

[peteblue]

So basically something that other states have negotiated with the EU is pie in the sky twaddle? Well done.

Yet you believe that the U.K. cannot achieve at least the same .......

 

[tsubaki]

Yet you believe that the U.K. cannot achieve at least the same .......

you made more sense here during your ban, pete

 

[Bruce Wayne]

So basically something that other states have negotiated with the EU is pie in the sky twaddle? Well done.

He's not saying that though is he? You said yourself that absolutely no details as to the precise nature of the relationship have been disclosed, meaning it could be anything from the Norwegian relationship to the Namibian relationship, both of whom have 'access to the single market'.

 

[Jebus_lives]

But I thought we, the British people were not allowed to make a decision without it being traduced and overturned by those who know better.....

You thought wrong.