Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Bruce Wayne]

Nope. Corbyn has had to ride through the most vicious character assassination by the british press on any politician.
Even last week when the tory party kept shooting itself the media were questioning Corbyn not holding the tory stormnup for scrutiny.
Most people cannot see Corbyns strategy or policy because they've allowed their minds to be swayed, clouded or taken over.
Corbyn needs credit for seeing off 3 tory PMs through all of that too.

So Labour's job was made much harder because Corbyn is leader? Doesn't that kinda make the point that if someone else was leader similar results could have been achieved as they perhaps wouldn't have had such media coverage to overcome?

 

[Number_25]

So Labour's job was made much harder because Corbyn is leader? Doesn't that kinda make the point that if someone else was leader similar results could have been achieved as they perhaps wouldn't have had such media coverage to overcome?

I'm tempted to say that anyone with Corbyn's worldview on socialism as an alternative to capitalism would have had similar issues. Even Ed Miliband had some of the vilest propaganda pushed against him by the Tory-supporting media.

 

[Number_25]

The "LP institutional anti-semitism" charge is a complete fabrication.It's one of th greatest political cons of our time.

Shame on those carrying it out, and a massive appreciation to those in the Jewish Voices For Labour who stood tall to defend the party from the slurs from their own community. Heroes one and all.

I'm going to get a bit of flack for this, but there you go.

The issue of anti-semitism within the Labour Party could have been a real opportunity to understand how this form of racism (regardless of how little it is in terms of prevalence) was able to manifest itself within our movement.

From these individual battles, we could have taken lessons from it and applied them to wider forms of violence in society.

 

[davek]

I'm going to get a bit of flack for this, but there you go.

The issue of anti-semitism within the Labour Party could have been a real opportunity to understand how this form of racism (regardless of how little it is in terms of prevalence) was able to manifest itself within our movement.

From these individual battles, we could have taken lessons from it and applied them to wider forms of violence in society.

It's too charged with internal faction-fighting. One faction brought it up to clobber the other faction and that's pretty much all there is to it.

Yes, anti-semitism is a scourge of history and people need to explore its causes. It's everywhere: Sheakespeare to the Nazis; Stalinism to liberal democracies; eastern Europe to California. The world needs a scapegoat, and the Jews are it. It's an easy target that never hits back.

None of that though should be used either as a weapon by people who (as @Blue 1 s linked article underlined earlier today) ultimately deepen anti-semitism by doing that; and neither should it be an excuse to cover up the crimes of the Israeli apartheid state.

 

[Socrates]

So Labour's job was made much harder because Corbyn is leader? Doesn't that kinda make the point that if someone else was leader similar results could have been achieved as they perhaps wouldn't have had such media coverage to overcome?

Every left leaning Labour leader has had this treatment since 1980.

The one exception was Tony Blair.
In order to get acceptance, he had to give the markets free reign, enter into PFI contracts and reduce the welfare state.

This was perfect for the money men.
If, or should I say when the next crash came, they could pin it on Labour and the Tories could get back in to make the public pay for it all, and ready made scapegoats, to boot.

Labour could put Miriam Margolyes in charge and before you know it, the media will be comparing her to Myra Hindley.

I mean, if a lifelong peace campaigner and anti-racist advocate can be painted as a terrorist sympathiser and anti-semite and not singing the national anthem is unpatriotic, yet selling off the nation's assets to foreign governments or betting against your own currency whilst trying to crash your own economy isn't unpatriotic, then it's obvious the system is completely broken.

Rather than arguing over left and right, we should be pointing pointing that out, hopefully opening people's eyes to the truth.

 

[Number_25]

It's too charged with internal faction-fighting. One faction brought it up to clobber the other faction and that's pretty much all there is to it.

Yes, anti-semitism is a scourge of history and people need to explore its causes. It's everywhere: Sheakespeare to the Nazis; Stalinism to liberal democracies; eastern Europe to California. The world needs a scapegoat, and the Jews are it. It's an easy target that never hits back.

None of that though should be used either as a weapon by people who (as @Blue 1 s linked article underlined earlier today) ultimately deepen anti-semitism by doing that; and neither should it be an excuse to cover up the crimes of the Israeli apartheid state.

Well said.

Important that we discuss this with the nuance and respect it deserves.

 

[orchard]

If you're honest though, could you see any even remotely competent person (Andy Burnham for instance) not making similar hay out of such incompetence? I'm not sure there is anything particular about Corbyn's leadership that has contributed to the failure of the Tories to do much. The role of Hilary Benn, for example, surely can't be underestimated?

No, and a lot of others, like Cooper and Starmer, et al. But like i mentioned above, they've focussed on the important battles on the immediate public interest, and won a lot of them against massive media pressure and little positive coverage. We need to be careful and give credit where it's due.

 

[Socrates]

No, and a lot of others, like Cooper and Starmer, et al. But like i mentioned above, they've focussed on the important battles on the immediate public interest, and won a lot of them against massive media pressure and little positive coverage. We need to be careful and give credit where it's due.

They are good examples of Labour centrist politicians. They are still firm believers in the democratic process.
If the membership want left wing policies then they will work to temper the more extreme proposals but abide by the decisions of the membership.

It's the likes of Watson and Hodge with their air of entitlement, believing the party should do as they say because "they know better" who are the one's that should be driven out. Democracy for them is a tool, not an ideology. If you don't abide by that ideology, you should not be in the Labour party.

 

[Billy Dean]

....regardless of moral compass, the Liberals have a strategy and it’s working. They have a fixed view on Brexit which is clever enough to get them back in the ball game after a period in the wilderness.

This morning on Maher, John McDonnell said their aim was to negotiate a new deal with Europe. They would then put that deal to the people in a 2nd referendum but campaign to remain. They are trying to appeal to all their voters but it’s a complicated approach that will put many floating voters off.

The next GE should serve as a Brexit referendum in itself, with each party having a fixed view but Labour’s approach is blurred.

But Brexit is a complicated issue and deserves treating as such, if had been from the beginning maybe things would be clearer now.

 

[magicjuan]

So Labour's job was made much harder because Corbyn is leader? Doesn't that kinda make the point that if someone else was leader similar results could have been achieved as they perhaps wouldn't have had such media coverage to overcome?

Why do you always, and it is always, have to be disingenuous. You are well aware that isn't the point being made but as usual respond with some fatuous comment.
Not really worth the effort is it?

 

[davek]

Some sense at last from the non-Corbyn aligned LP commentariat.

If Boris Johnson quits, MPs should back Jeremy Corbyn to avoid no deal | Polly Toynbee

It’s no use wishing for another opposition leader: we need a united alliance, and he is stepping up, says Guardian columnist Polly Toynbee

www.theguardian.com

 

[Pudsey]

Firstly, in the timescale before 31st Oct we have no alternate Leader of the Opposition possible. However, despite solid views from Labour spokesmen like Starmer for example, if you seriously think Corbyn could negotiate a f@rt let alone a withdrawal and treaty of this measure then you are seriously deluded.

 

[davek]

Firstly, in the timescale before 31st Oct we have no alternate Leader of the Opposition possible. However, despite solid views from Labour spokesmen like Starmer for example, if you seriously think Corbyn could negotiate a f@rt let alone a withdrawal and treaty of this measure then you are seriously deluded.

It's easy negotiating a deal; it's getting others to pass it that's the hard part...ask Theresa May.

 

[Pudsey]

It's easy negotiating a deal; it's getting others to pass it that's the hard part...ask Theresa May.

If she is the measure you wish to use I pity you.

 

[edge]

thought Corbyn spoke well tonight , with a bit of passion .
that Jewish MP was a bit uncomfortable for him you could see it in his face.