Current Affairs The Labour Party

[degsy]

• From December 2013, a “stronger, more robust” Habitual Residence Test for those claiming means-tested benefits.
• From 1 January 2014, people coming to the UK must have been living in the UK for three months before they can claim income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance.
• EEA jobseekers or former workers would have to show that they had a “genuine prospect of finding work” to continue to get JSA after six months (and if applicable, Housing Benefit, Child Benefit and Child Tax Credit). For those with a right to reside as a jobseeker the test is now applied after three months on JSA.
• From 1 March 2014, a new minimum earnings threshold to help determine whether an EEA national is or was in “genuine and effective” work, and so has a “right to reside” as a worker or self-employed person (and with it, entitlement to benefits).
• From 1 April 2014 new EEA jobseekers have been prevented from accessing Housing Benefits even if they are in receipt of JSA.
• From 1 July 2014, new jobseekers arriving in the UK would need to have lived here for three months in order to claim Child Benefit and Child Tax Credit.
• From 10 June 2015, EEA jobseekers have been prevented from claiming Universal Credit.

They are actual changes. The proposals they mention Cameron was going to the EU with were secured by him in his supposedly failed attempts to reform EU membership. As has been said above, it's alarming that these kind of things weren't known before the referendum, but it's even more alarming that ignorance remains even after it's been debated so much over the last three years. It's easy to blame the media for poor quality reporting, but our politicians have made vapid soundbites their stock in trade, so for me have to shoulder the bulk of the blame.

Like I said Total Dogs Breakfast.

 

[Tubey]

• From December 2013, a “stronger, more robust” Habitual Residence Test for those claiming means-tested benefits.
• From 1 January 2014, people coming to the UK must have been living in the UK for three months before they can claim income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance.
• EEA jobseekers or former workers would have to show that they had a “genuine prospect of finding work” to continue to get JSA after six months (and if applicable, Housing Benefit, Child Benefit and Child Tax Credit). For those with a right to reside as a jobseeker the test is now applied after three months on JSA.
• From 1 March 2014, a new minimum earnings threshold to help determine whether an EEA national is or was in “genuine and effective” work, and so has a “right to reside” as a worker or self-employed person (and with it, entitlement to benefits).
• From 1 April 2014 new EEA jobseekers have been prevented from accessing Housing Benefits even if they are in receipt of JSA.
• From 1 July 2014, new jobseekers arriving in the UK would need to have lived here for three months in order to claim Child Benefit and Child Tax Credit.
• From 10 June 2015, EEA jobseekers have been prevented from claiming Universal Credit.

They are actual changes. The proposals they mention Cameron was going to the EU with were secured by him in his supposedly failed attempts to reform EU membership. As has been said above, it's alarming that these kind of things weren't known before the referendum, but it's even more alarming that ignorance remains even after it's been debated so much over the last three years. It's easy to blame the media for poor quality reporting, but our politicians have made vapid soundbites their stock in trade, so for me have to shoulder the bulk of the blame.

I remember discussing the Habitual Residency Test on here about six or seven years ago - nearly everyone discussing it didn't have a clue it existed. They were convinced it was just a free-for-all.

In retrospect I shouldn't have been surprised at all by the leave vote, as barely anybody had any in depth knowledge on what they were voting on.

EDIT: Here we go - https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/the-uk-in-the-eu.50066/page-5#post-1551677 - unsurprising to see familiar names displaying cluelessness about foreign work in the UK...

 

[roydo]

In retrospect I shouldn't have been surprised at all by the leave vote, as barely anybody had any in depth knowledge on what they were voting on.

I have been having that discussion, well sort of, with Joey in the EU thread. As per, not much progress on from 17.4 million etc etc.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I remember discussing the Habitual Residency Test on here about six or seven years ago - nearly everyone discussing it didn't have a clue it existed. They were convinced it was just a free-for-all.

In retrospect I shouldn't have been surprised at all by the leave vote, as barely anybody had any in depth knowledge on what they were voting on.

EDIT: Here we go - https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/the-uk-in-the-eu.50066/page-5#post-1551677 - unsurprising to see familiar names displaying cluelessness about foreign work in the UK...

Honestly don't remember that thread at all. Wowzas.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

In retrospect I shouldn't have been surprised at all by the leave vote, as barely anybody had any in depth knowledge on what they were voting on

Don't see Tory Government addressing what caused that many people to vote leave, they are only dealing with the result, and LibDems are just ignoring 17.4 million and hope they just go away. People can wave all the evidence they like, on how great the European project is and freedom of movement, the fact of the matter many people in UK are unhappy because their lives are becoming more and more difficult. Wrongly EU and immigration has taken the full emotion of this deep unhappiness.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

 

[tsubaki]

1. Of course there isn't another leader - the left have successfully infiltrated the entire party and any politician of note since 2015 has been a Corbyn sycophant. The Labour party as it was when it was electable is dead now. Milliband killed it by allowing entryism.

No, he didn't. This is another absolute myth peddled by the centre - Corbyn won among the membership in 2015, overwhelmingly (49.6% vs Burnham's second place 22.7).

2. The 'centrists' when they were 'last in government' where exactly that - in government. Get back to me when Corbyn manages that feat for starters.

Which is a fantastically circular argument. Centrists help worsen any subsequent Labour GE campaign by removing forty-odd seats, but its subsequent Labour's fault because it can't overcome that.

3. The last left-wing Labour government is at this point beyond living memory of most of Corbyn's supporters. Hell, anyones memory depending on your criteria. Wilson? Attlee? Hardly left wing. Callaghan for five minutes perhaps. Britain isn't an extreme left wing country, never has been - closest it came was post-WW2.

Attlee "hardly left wing"? Not sure how you get to make that statement given that his government nationalised the likes of Pickfords and Eddie Stobart as well as the hospitals, railways, steel industry, power generation and housebuilding.

Claiming the centre-ground is 'fantasy politics' whilst acclaiming the 'recovery' of Labour - against the backdrop of a near decade of austerity and overwhelming Tory incompetence - by going extreme left is ironic.

Tubey - the fantasy politics is pretending that centrists have either a candidate or an argument that could do better than Corbyn has.

'Semi-permanently get rid of about 40 Labour seats"... which of course Blair won and then some in the first instance. Amazing revisionism. New Labour, for all its' faults, turned a three figure seat deficit under Thatcher when she wiped the floor with the inept left of Foot and Kinnock and turned it into a three figure seat majority.

It takes some balls to make a statement like that, accusing me of revisionism when you've managed to be wrong so many times in three sentences. For a start, New Labour didn't come along until Blair became leader in 1994, and when Kinnock fought his last election (in 1992) the Tory majority was 21 (and had 65 more seats than Labour). By the 1997 election, that majority was effectively nothing - so how you can pretend Blair overturned a three figure seat deficit is not something that is can be understood.

Blair took on the Tories in much, much better shape than this lot and annihilated them. Yet Corbyn is the constant underdog no matter what the Tories do. And people applaud him for it. Boggles the mind.

Were you even in this country between 1994 and 1997?

 

[Boss_Blue]

No, he didn't. This is another absolute myth peddled by the centre - Corbyn won among the membership in 2015, overwhelmingly (49.6% vs Burnham's second place 22.7).



Which is a fantastically circular argument. Centrists help worsen any subsequent Labour GE campaign by removing forty-odd seats, but its subsequent Labour's fault because it can't overcome that.



Attlee "hardly left wing"? Not sure how you get to make that statement given that his government nationalised the likes of Pickfords and Eddie Stobart as well as the hospitals, railways, steel industry, power generation and housebuilding.



Tubey - the fantasy politics is pretending that centrists have either a candidate or an argument that could do better than Corbyn has.



It takes some balls to make a statement like that, accusing me of revisionism when you've managed to be wrong so many times in three sentences. For a start, New Labour didn't come along until Blair became leader in 1994, and when Kinnock fought his last election (in 1992) the Tory majority was 21 (and had 65 more seats than Labour). By the 1997 election, that majority was effectively nothing - so how you can pretend Blair overturned a three figure seat deficit is not something that is can be understood.



Were you even in this country between 1994 and 1997?

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

If I were to seat myself on this rent out a policy centrist ground for a moment or two and enter black and white politics. Its a very simple choice of two by any stretch.

If Corbyn turns out to be a terrible PM, then at least we can vote for someone else in 5 years time.

If Boris wins though he looks set to wreck the country for decades generations with his no-deal lunacy and they'll be no easy way to reverse the damage.

So if you're a sensible person of remain who cares about the future of the UK, whatever your political leanings in the . Corbyn now has to be far and a way the lesser of the 2 evils doesn't he?

 

[BlueToff]

I really don't think we'll leave with no deal.

I'm past the point of panicking about it.

We'll leave. There'll be a deal in place. Both us and the EU (for all the posturing - and that's what it is - on both sides) want it.

Blaming the failures of Labour on other parties is boring. They're useless. They're all useless.

I voted Green in the Euro elections, purely as I like Magid Magid who was running. Labour have lost my vote, and I'll never vote Tory. Couldn't give a toss about the Lib Dems.

If another GE comes around, I probably won't vote. That's how disillusioned I am with it all.

Could have all been avoided had Labour just won in 2015.

 

[orchard]

Bollocks obvs., but funny imo:

 

[peteblue]

I remember discussing the Habitual Residency Test on here about six or seven years ago - nearly everyone discussing it didn't have a clue it existed. They were convinced it was just a free-for-all.

In retrospect I shouldn't have been surprised at all by the leave vote, as barely anybody had any in depth knowledge on what they were voting on.

EDIT: Here we go - https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/the-uk-in-the-eu.50066/page-5#post-1551677 - unsurprising to see familiar names displaying cluelessness about foreign work in the UK...

I assume you are referring to yourself.......

 

[peteblue]

Bollocks obvs., but funny imo:

 

[Tubey]

I didn't even bother to respond to his post; it's that stupid.

Outright denying Corbynite entryism after the Milliband membership rule change is a whole other level of nonsense. It provably happened.

Ed Miliband 'should apologise for ridiculous leadership rules'

Labour backbenchers call on Ed Miliband to apologise for the 'ridiculous' leadership rules he put in place.

www.bbc.co.uk

Attlee wasn't left wing - he was a moderate who undertook social programs in the wake of WW2.

Is Jeremy Corbyn a latter-day Attlee?

Jeremy Corbyn's leadership style is closer to Clement Attlee than Tony Blair, but times are very different, says Prof Archie Brown.

www.bbc.co.uk

Attlee saw himself, and was seen, as a party loyalist and as a centrist within the Labour Party.

He was able to head a government which, collectively, moved the centre of the political spectrum in Britain leftwards and, in many respects, set the political agenda for a generation.

When I say something, I do so knowing what I'm talking about.

 

[bigbadjeff]

EU migrants are already prevented from claiming benefits for some time after they move to a country.

For how long Bruce?