Current Affairs The Labour Party

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The attorney general has suggested that legally Boris can take us out even if there is a vote of no confidence.....I’m no lawyer but I respect his opinion.......

I have an Irish legal background and I believe that the UK Government can leave under it's unwritten constitution following the referendum and with agreement of both Houses.

Whether that would be a wise decision is something about which I have serious doubts.
 
Those that have put faith in the darling of the anti Corbyn brigade, Tom Watson, may need to think again and come up with some other 'saviour'.


"Geoffrey Alderman is a noted professor of the history of the Jewish community in the UK – and also a journalist. The Jewish Telegraph, announcing his agreement to write a regular column in the paper, said that it was ‘thrilled and excited’ about the decision. Alderman also writes for the Times.
Professor Alderman has written to the Labour Party to complain about the Easter message circulated by Labour deputy leader Tom Watson this spring, which he feels reinforces “the oldest antisemitic trope”:


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He rightly fears that if the people were given a straight choice in a referendum, “no deal v no Brexit”, no Brexit would win comfortably. But Johnson is confident that in an election choice between him and you he would win, and so get the mandate for the hardest form of Brexit he would otherwise not legitimately be able to claim.

Undoubtedly he'll be shot down for who he is, but on the above point, I'm inclined to believe he's quite right, as not only does Corbyn unify the Tory vote and stop any centrist stragglers from deserting, he divides the 'remain' vote too. If Johnson goes into an election promising a hard Brexit should they win, then they'll suck up all the Brexit Party votes, and run out clear winners with a mandate for screwing the country up.

Source btw: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/29/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-brexit
 
Undoubtedly he'll be shot down for who he is, but on the above point, I'm inclined to believe he's quite right, as not only does Corbyn unify the Tory vote and stop any centrist stragglers from deserting, he divides the 'remain' vote too. If Johnson goes into an election promising a hard Brexit should they win, then they'll suck up all the Brexit Party votes, and run out clear winners with a mandate for screwing the country up.

Source btw: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/29/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-brexit

He is, but not in the way he thinks he is. Corbyn (ie: Labour) represent the only real, actual opposition to the Tory Party and - more importantly - Tory policies, and a win for Labour at a General Election is the only way Brexit will ever be stopped given what the opinion of the PLP is.

Now you'd think these facts, combined with the looming national disaster that is Brexit and the ongoing harm caused to vast numbers of people by this government would concentrate minds, and would stop people like Campbell doing what they have been doing since 2015. Instead they (and he) have continued it, responding to every development in the party (and in national politics) and every carefully agreed policy with the same pathetic refrain of "Corbyn out!". No issue is so important that "Corbyn out!" cannot be stapled to it.

This is despite the evident damage it is doing to Labour, and even despite the damage its doing to them - given the complete failure of the anti-Corbyn position to come up with any plausible candidates or even policies since 2015.

To put it another way, Campbell and the rest (and the Lib Dems, the FBPE crowd, the "centrists" and the rest) have a choice - voting against this Government, or voting against Corbyn. We all know what choice they'll make, and that they'll try to escape responsibility afterwards.
 
He is, but not in the way he thinks he is. Corbyn (ie: Labour) represent the only real, actual opposition to the Tory Party and - more importantly - Tory policies, and a win for Labour at a General Election is the only way Brexit will ever be stopped given what the opinion of the PLP is.

Now you'd think these facts, combined with the looming national disaster that is Brexit and the ongoing harm caused to vast numbers of people by this government would concentrate minds, and would stop people like Campbell doing what they have been doing since 2015. Instead they (and he) have continued it, responding to every development in the party (and in national politics) and every carefully agreed policy with the same pathetic refrain of "Corbyn out!". No issue is so important that "Corbyn out!" cannot be stapled to it.

This is despite the evident damage it is doing to Labour, and even despite the damage its doing to them - given the complete failure of the anti-Corbyn position to come up with any plausible candidates or even policies since 2015.

To put it another way, Campbell and the rest (and the Lib Dems, the FBPE crowd, the "centrists" and the rest) have a choice - voting against this Government, or voting against Corbyn. We all know what choice they'll make, and that they'll try to escape responsibility afterwards.

So you would rather people are forced to vote for someone they dislike enormously due to the absurdity of the first past the post electoral system than replace Corbyn with someone the wider electorate can truly get behind? That's pretty much where we are, isn't it?
 
That's not a good thing in my book. The purge of anyone that disagrees with Corbyn continues. There will be nothing left of the Labour party soon.

Campbell left of his own accord and wasn't 'purged'. He'll never support a Corbyn led Labour party and his 'I voted Libdems' was deliberate to put the boot into the Labour party. Good riddance to bad rubbish. As this NEC member explains about Campbell.


No Labour grandee is above the rules of the party – Alastair Campbell had to go
The rules the rest of the membership have to adhere to should also be applied to Blair’s former spin doctor. It really is that simple

lara-mcneill.jpg


Don’t be deceived: Alastair Campbell knew exactly what he was doing when he publicly declared his support for an opposition party, not least the party that propped up cruel Tory austerity and supported benefit cuts in exchange for a 5p plastic bag charge when in coalition.
Despite his statement that he is “and always will be Labour”, he did vote Liberal Democrat and the Labour Party rulebook (chapter 2 paragraph 4, to be precise) clearly states that members who support a party other than Labour are automatically ineligible for membership.

He has a right to appeal against this decision, of course, but it seems like a pretty cut-and-dried case to me, akin to many I have seen before on the national executive committee. It would amaze me if the appeal was successful, having encountered cases markedly similar to Campbell’s on the NEC disputes subcommittee: would we have to reverse all these similar past decisions as well? Rather than a “Stalinist act of revenge” by Jeremy Corbyn, as some have called it, expelling Alastair Campbell is simply sticking to the rules, decided by conference and implemented by Jennie Formby and the governance and legal unit, not the leader.


Maybe this shocked Campbell because New Labour weren’t always known for sticking to the party’s rules, often attempting top-down manoeuvres to bypass members; as well as presiding over a vague and weak disputes process compared with today’s, which deals with more than half a million members and countless more complaints.

Ironically, the left on the NEC are the ones to have pushed for reforms to the auto-exclusion process – including hearing and appeals, after it was alleged to have been used, along with suspensions, to exclude members from voting for Jeremy Corbyn in the leadership election of 2016.
A question remains: why would you wish to stay a member of the Labour Party if you supported another party? A basic condition of membership, it seems obvious to me, would be supporting the party at election time. The Labour Party’s press team reassured members that how they vote is obviously a private matter (the NEC hasn’t installed cameras in voting booths), but to publicly declare that you are voting for someone else is contravening the rule book.

And why court expulsion over this, of all issues? Why is Brexit the final straw after illegal invasions, mass privatisation and the public bashing of trade unionists, as we shamefully have done as a party over the past few decades? This baffles me.
Tom Watson has suggested an amnesty for all members declaring support for other parties around the issue of Europe, which would require an immediate change of rules. But we don’t have a top-down, bureaucratic party. Jeremy Corbyn, Jennie Formby or even the NEC can’t make amendments to our rulebook; only the sovereign body of national conference every September. This is how decision-making should stay.

If there is to be any integrity, and if they are to have any legal standing, the Labour Party’s rules have to be applied fairly and swiftly to all members, no matter their prominence as a media figure or whether they hold a party position. The Labour Party is more than its spinners and its politicians. It is kept alive by a movement of hundreds of thousands of activists, trade unionists and supporters across the UK. Any rules that they have to adhere to, those who have received prominence on the back of our party should as well.
Post-expulsion, Campbell added: “I suspect I will be in and around Labour longer than some of the people around Jeremy Corbyn at the moment.” Well, the next generation of members say to the proponents of the Iraq war and years of neoliberalism: fairer Labour Party structures and socialist policies are here to stay.
Lara McNeill is a member of Labour’s national executive committee
 
Campbell left of his own accord and wasn't 'purged'. He'll never support a Corbyn led Labour party and his 'I voted Libdems' was deliberate to put the boot into the Labour party. Good riddance to bad rubbish. As this NEC member explains about Campbell.


No Labour grandee is above the rules of the party – Alastair Campbell had to go
The rules the rest of the membership have to adhere to should also be applied to Blair’s former spin doctor. It really is that simple

lara-mcneill.jpg


Don’t be deceived: Alastair Campbell knew exactly what he was doing when he publicly declared his support for an opposition party, not least the party that propped up cruel Tory austerity and supported benefit cuts in exchange for a 5p plastic bag charge when in coalition.
Despite his statement that he is “and always will be Labour”, he did vote Liberal Democrat and the Labour Party rulebook (chapter 2 paragraph 4, to be precise) clearly states that members who support a party other than Labour are automatically ineligible for membership.

He has a right to appeal against this decision, of course, but it seems like a pretty cut-and-dried case to me, akin to many I have seen before on the national executive committee. It would amaze me if the appeal was successful, having encountered cases markedly similar to Campbell’s on the NEC disputes subcommittee: would we have to reverse all these similar past decisions as well? Rather than a “Stalinist act of revenge” by Jeremy Corbyn, as some have called it, expelling Alastair Campbell is simply sticking to the rules, decided by conference and implemented by Jennie Formby and the governance and legal unit, not the leader.


Maybe this shocked Campbell because New Labour weren’t always known for sticking to the party’s rules, often attempting top-down manoeuvres to bypass members; as well as presiding over a vague and weak disputes process compared with today’s, which deals with more than half a million members and countless more complaints.

Ironically, the left on the NEC are the ones to have pushed for reforms to the auto-exclusion process – including hearing and appeals, after it was alleged to have been used, along with suspensions, to exclude members from voting for Jeremy Corbyn in the leadership election of 2016.
A question remains: why would you wish to stay a member of the Labour Party if you supported another party? A basic condition of membership, it seems obvious to me, would be supporting the party at election time. The Labour Party’s press team reassured members that how they vote is obviously a private matter (the NEC hasn’t installed cameras in voting booths), but to publicly declare that you are voting for someone else is contravening the rule book.

And why court expulsion over this, of all issues? Why is Brexit the final straw after illegal invasions, mass privatisation and the public bashing of trade unionists, as we shamefully have done as a party over the past few decades? This baffles me.
Tom Watson has suggested an amnestyfor all members declaring support for other parties around the issue of Europe, which would require an immediate change of rules. But we don’t have a top-down, bureaucratic party. Jeremy Corbyn, Jennie Formby or even the NEC can’t make amendments to our rulebook; only the sovereign body of national conference every September. This is how decision-making should stay.

If there is to be any integrity, and if they are to have any legal standing, the Labour Party’s rules have to be applied fairly and swiftly to all members, no matter their prominence as a media figure or whether they hold a party position. The Labour Party is more than its spinners and its politicians. It is kept alive by a movement of hundreds of thousands of activists, trade unionists and supporters across the UK. Any rules that they have to adhere to, those who have received prominence on the back of our party should as well.
Post-expulsion, Campbell added: “I suspect I will be in and around Labour longer than some of the people around Jeremy Corbyn at the moment.” Well, the next generation of members say to the proponents of the Iraq war and years of neoliberalism: fairer Labour Party structures and socialist policies are here to stay.
Lara McNeill is a member of Labour’s national executive committee

Err, he was kinda suspended for voting Lib Dem in the EU elections, and was only allowed back in if he a) never voted anyone but Labour again, and b) went public saying as much. It's not exactly a ringing endorsement for freedom is it?
 
Campbell left of his own accord and wasn't 'purged'. He'll never support a Corbyn led Labour party and his 'I voted Libdems' was deliberate to put the boot into the Labour party. Good riddance to bad rubbish. As this NEC member explains about Campbell.


No Labour grandee is above the rules of the party – Alastair Campbell had to go
The rules the rest of the membership have to adhere to should also be applied to Blair’s former spin doctor. It really is that simple

lara-mcneill.jpg


Don’t be deceived: Alastair Campbell knew exactly what he was doing when he publicly declared his support for an opposition party, not least the party that propped up cruel Tory austerity and supported benefit cuts in exchange for a 5p plastic bag charge when in coalition.
Despite his statement that he is “and always will be Labour”, he did vote Liberal Democrat and the Labour Party rulebook (chapter 2 paragraph 4, to be precise) clearly states that members who support a party other than Labour are automatically ineligible for membership.

He has a right to appeal against this decision, of course, but it seems like a pretty cut-and-dried case to me, akin to many I have seen before on the national executive committee. It would amaze me if the appeal was successful, having encountered cases markedly similar to Campbell’s on the NEC disputes subcommittee: would we have to reverse all these similar past decisions as well? Rather than a “Stalinist act of revenge” by Jeremy Corbyn, as some have called it, expelling Alastair Campbell is simply sticking to the rules, decided by conference and implemented by Jennie Formby and the governance and legal unit, not the leader.


Maybe this shocked Campbell because New Labour weren’t always known for sticking to the party’s rules, often attempting top-down manoeuvres to bypass members; as well as presiding over a vague and weak disputes process compared with today’s, which deals with more than half a million members and countless more complaints.

Ironically, the left on the NEC are the ones to have pushed for reforms to the auto-exclusion process – including hearing and appeals, after it was alleged to have been used, along with suspensions, to exclude members from voting for Jeremy Corbyn in the leadership election of 2016.
A question remains: why would you wish to stay a member of the Labour Party if you supported another party? A basic condition of membership, it seems obvious to me, would be supporting the party at election time. The Labour Party’s press team reassured members that how they vote is obviously a private matter (the NEC hasn’t installed cameras in voting booths), but to publicly declare that you are voting for someone else is contravening the rule book.

And why court expulsion over this, of all issues? Why is Brexit the final straw after illegal invasions, mass privatisation and the public bashing of trade unionists, as we shamefully have done as a party over the past few decades? This baffles me.
Tom Watson has suggested an amnestyfor all members declaring support for other parties around the issue of Europe, which would require an immediate change of rules. But we don’t have a top-down, bureaucratic party. Jeremy Corbyn, Jennie Formby or even the NEC can’t make amendments to our rulebook; only the sovereign body of national conference every September. This is how decision-making should stay.

If there is to be any integrity, and if they are to have any legal standing, the Labour Party’s rules have to be applied fairly and swiftly to all members, no matter their prominence as a media figure or whether they hold a party position. The Labour Party is more than its spinners and its politicians. It is kept alive by a movement of hundreds of thousands of activists, trade unionists and supporters across the UK. Any rules that they have to adhere to, those who have received prominence on the back of our party should as well.
Post-expulsion, Campbell added: “I suspect I will be in and around Labour longer than some of the people around Jeremy Corbyn at the moment.” Well, the next generation of members say to the proponents of the Iraq war and years of neoliberalism: fairer Labour Party structures and socialist policies are here to stay.
Lara McNeill is a member of Labour’s national executive committee

Maybe I'm wrong then but I personally identify far more with Campbell's view of Labour than I do Corbyn's. For example I'm totally against nationalisation as a seeming blanket policy.

It pains me that the Momentum/Corbyn wing seem to ignore the reality that we (Labour) appear to be making zero impact on without doubt the worst Tory government in a century.
 
Maybe I'm wrong then but I personally identify far more with Campbell's view of Labour than I do Corbyn's. For example I'm totally against nationalisation as a seeming blanket policy.

It pains me that the Momentum/Corbyn wing seem to ignore the reality that we (Labour) appear to be making zero impact on without doubt the worst Tory government in a century.

It's interesting if a general election were to happen. Labour seem to have two possible approaches.

1) Significantly 'soften' their approach and look to genuinely appeal to centrists to ward off a Tory party who will surely veer right to hoover up Brexit Party voters.

2) Stick to their guns and gamble that enough centrists are more appalled by a no deal Brexit than they are by a Corbynite government

I'm concerned that they will go more with #2 than #1
 
It's interesting if a general election were to happen. Labour seem to have two possible approaches.

1) Significantly 'soften' their approach and look to genuinely appeal to centrists to ward off a Tory party who will surely veer right to hoover up Brexit Party voters.

2) Stick to their guns and gamble that enough centrists are more appalled by a no deal Brexit than they are by a Corbynite government

I'm concerned that they will go more with #2 than #1

I agree and most of my colleagues and contacts in work, whilst appalled by a Boris Brexit, are even more appalled at the idea of a Corbyn-led government.

I am always worried at the idea that a huge cohort of the Momentum wing see themselves as such idealists that they'd rather not even contemplate a more centrist stance on certain issues to maintain intellectual purity. And then almost to hell with the majority of the electorate that goes elsewhere.

With the dangers facing the UK today we need a pragmatic left of centre party to fight the Tories.
 
I agree and most of my colleagues and contacts in work, whilst appalled by a Boris Brexit, are even more appalled at the idea of a Corbyn-led government.

I am always worried at the idea that a huge cohort of the Momentum wing see themselves as such idealists that they'd rather not even contemplate a more centrist stance on certain issues to maintain intellectual purity. And then almost to hell with the majority of the electorate that goes elsewhere.

With the dangers facing the UK today we need a pragmatic left of centre party to fight the Tories.

It doesn't strike me as an ideal situation when politicians of whatever stripe want the electorate to compromise far more than they're willing to.
 
am always worried at the idea that a huge cohort of the Momentum wing see themselves as such idealists that they'd rather not even contemplate a more centrist stance on certain issues to maintain intellectual purity. And then almost to hell with the majority of the electorate that goes elsewhere.

What are these centrist issues?
 
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