Current Affairs The Labour Party

[tsubaki]

Pete is right, you can't just go lashing nationalisations under EU law. How far it would be enforced or interpreted is open to question. (I also think the surplus they were proposing was outside of the limits).

You can nationalize as much as you want under EU law; you just can't do punitively or distort the market / reduce competition in a market (or disadvantage another company) by doing so.

The advantage Corbyn would have if he ever came to power is that a lot of our privatizations are monopolies that have been sold, with very little or no competition in a sector or geographical area, and which are in most cases reliant on the state anyway.

 

[peteblue]

Well Pete, in the campaigning prior to the referendum all the talk from leave campaigners was of staying in the single market was it not?

No. The talk was of putting together a free trade agreement. Only in the EU does it take longer for a country, fully aligned with EU law and standards and with over 40 years of free trade within the bloc, to negotiate a free trade agreement.

Well this is the irony of most of the EU debate really isn't it? On all sides? You have Tories like Hannan carrying on as if the EU were not a vehicle for privatisation etc etc. The reality is, Corbyn's manifesto as things stand cannot be implemented within the current EU rules.

For me (and while I don;t agree with Mason on lots of things he's stumbled upon a certain formula in this regard. Essentially if Labour won it would need to go into conflict with the EU pretty early on, very openly declare it will abandon the ideals of the Lisbon Treaty and break some obscure EU rules on Nationalisation which are generally quite populist/popular. As a tactical play this would be a smart move.

There isn't really a bad outcome to this. Either the EU would punish the UK and the "left" can begin to shape the discourse amongst a lot of older brexiteers who are intrinsically against the EU. The EU caves in, at which point you can then push further against it on more things and give some breath into the flailing social democratic movement across Europe.

It would present real headaches for the right as well. They would be stuck between supporting the EU, or supporting a populist, left leaning government.

It is tricky isn’t it....

 

[larrygobfiend]

I wonder what would've happened if David Miliband had become Labour leader instead of Ed. There was less than 1% in the vote between them. Could we have avoided this nightmare that we've found ourselves in?

 

[JimmyJeffers]

I wonder what would've happened if David Miliband had become Labour leader instead of Ed. There was less than 1% in the vote between them. Could we have avoided this nightmare that we've found ourselves in?

Just be kicking the can further down the road in my opinion

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

I wonder what would've happened if David Miliband had become Labour leader instead of Ed. There was less than 1% in the vote between them. Could we have avoided this nightmare that we've found ourselves in?

A much bigger Conservative majority, Cameron possibly still as PM due to authority that large majorities bestow those who achieve them.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

I wonder what would've happened if David Miliband had become Labour leader instead of Ed. There was less than 1% in the vote between them. Could we have avoided this nightmare that we've found ourselves in?

Labour would of lost by an even bigger majority. Why would a Labour or Conservative voter (or anyone else for that matter) want to vote for a Conservative lite candidate in a Labour lite party?

 

[tsubaki]

I wonder what would've happened if David Miliband had become Labour leader instead of Ed. There was less than 1% in the vote between them. Could we have avoided this nightmare that we've found ourselves in?

David Miliband would have got crushed in 2015, phone hacking would never have been exposed and we'd have gone into Syria in 2013. It would have been a far worse nightmare.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

David Miliband would have got crushed in 2015, phone hacking would never have been exposed and we'd have gone into Syria in 2013. It would have been a far worse nightmare.

I sometimes wake up and imagine the Cameron/Clegg bromance is still ongoing. They get together with Macron and Trudeau and they look such a lovely bunch.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

I sometimes wake up and imagine the Cameron/Clegg bromance is still ongoing. They get together with Macron and Trudeau and they look such a lovely bunch.

The consequences of their legacy is still very much alive from Austerity to the fixed term Parliament act, one nation Tories and Orange book Liberals a very toxic combination.

 

[peteblue]

Does the Labour Party still exist.....

 

[twoblue]

Labour would of lost by an even bigger majority. Why would a Labour or Conservative voter (or anyone else for that matter) want to vote for a Conservative lite candidate in a Labour lite party?

You mean why would anyone want to vote for a centralist party? I think thats the problem. Most people want centralist govt but we have a electoral system that promotes a two party system. The electorate have no control on where these parties pitch themselves. We now have a Right of Right Tory party and Left of Left sided Labour party.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Labour would of lost by an even bigger majority. Why would a Labour or Conservative voter (or anyone else for that matter) want to vote for a Conservative lite candidate in a Labour lite party?

So you think Putin is right?

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

You mean why would anyone want to vote for a centralist party? I think thats the problem. Most people want centralist govt but we have a electoral system that promotes a two party system. The electorate have no control on where these parties pitch themselves. We now have a Right of Right Tory party and Left of Left sided Labour party.

I believe that a centrist party in a system that isn't rigged (like our one is) would have a massive following, as would a lot of smaller party's but I don't believe that the bulk of hard-core Labour or Conservative voters would ever vote for them.

Trying to have centrist leaders and MP's in the Labour and Conservative party's and appeal to core voters is like a trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

So you think Putin is right?

I don't pay any attention to Putin when I can avoid it. What is it that I supposedly think he's right about?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I don't pay any attention to Putin when I can avoid it. What is it that I supposedly think he's right about?

He said today that liberalism is dead, populism and nationalism are the future (and Trump and Brexit are great examples)