Current Affairs The Labour Party

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Is this not a result of all governments to a greater or lesser degree though mate? They tend to get voted out when they struggle.

The reality is, certainly in a modern context Britain was in far better shape in 2010 than in 2019. In the last40 years the longest period of economic growth/stability occurred under Brown/Blair 1997-2008.

But paradoxically Labour including their supporters are almost washing their hands of this period, brandishing it as almost a Tory lite government. If Labour continued on that path (+ learning from the mistakes) then they would eat into the more centre ground Tory voters that are more compassionate in nature but do not trust Labour with the economy. This would give the party a much better chance during an election unless the supporters of Labour as it stands at the moment vote for something else.
 
But paradoxically Labour including their supporters are almost washing their hands of this period, brandishing it as almost a Tory lite government. If Labour continued on that path (+ learning from the mistakes) then they would eat into the more centre ground Tory voters that are more compassionate in nature but do not trust Labour with the economy. This would give the party a much better chance during an election unless the supporters of Labour as it stands at the moment vote for something else.

Yes I agree entirely with that. I am certainly someone who is more sympathetic to the overall New Labour domestic project. You could also argue the Atlee governments proposals oversaw a boom of around 25 years and an adoption of their principles across the house.

The difficulty of the above narrative is that this Labour government in essence are occupying the space vacated by New Labour (if anything they may be slightly to their right) on domestic policy. The issue is politics has moved so far to the right that it looks extremely radical to say as much. The internal debate amongst Blair supporters seems to be between those who believe objectively they had they had the right policies in the 00's and those who want to maintain the principle that you locate yourselves at the centre of politics to win (or in reality just to the left of the Conservatives). Those two things now look increasingly different to one another.

I'd also add into this, what is killing Labour is that it's MP's do not want Corbyn to win. I can think of no political party that has ever got close to power (certainly as close as Labour are) with a majority of it's MP's in open opposition, For the most part I believe this to be for self-serving reasons. It creates a dilemma for the leadership though as to how exactly you tackle this. Electorally there is no easy option.

However even when Corbyn has moderated (his support for Palestine, Trident etc etc) it has not stopped the MP's internally damaging the party, if anything it has greatly increased it and given them oxygen/confidence.

In the medium term it's hard to see it ending well for Labour. I only speak for myself, but the day Corbyn goes (and eventually they will get him, because nobody can successfully lead a party where such insolence exists) will be the day I stop voting for them. The majority of those MPs are an absolute shower and I'd vote for most other parties ahead of them. In many ways I have more respect for even Tory MP's than them, as at least they are broadly principle to a cause rather than themselves. I do think lots of people will join me in this as well. They will herald getting rid of Corbyn as their re-birth, but it will be their downfall.
 
Yes I agree entirely with that. I am certainly someone who is more sympathetic to the overall New Labour domestic project. You could also argue the Atlee governments proposals oversaw a boom of around 25 years and an adoption of their principles across the house.

The difficulty of the above narrative is that this Labour government in essence are occupying the space vacated by New Labour (if anything they may be slightly to their right) on domestic policy. The issue is politics has moved so far to the right that it looks extremely radical to say as much. The internal debate amongst Blair supporters seems to be between those who believe objectively they had they had the right policies in the 00's and those who want to maintain the principle that you locate yourselves at the centre of politics to win (or in reality just to the left of the Conservatives). Those two things now look increasingly different to one another.

I'd also add into this, what is killing Labour is that it's MP's do not want Corbyn to win. I can think of no political party that has ever got close to power (certainly as close as Labour are) with a majority of it's MP's in open opposition, For the most part I believe this to be for self-serving reasons. It creates a dilemma for the leadership though as to how exactly you tackle this. Electorally there is no easy option.

However even when Corbyn has moderated (his support for Palestine, Trident etc etc) it has not stopped the MP's internally damaging the party, if anything it has greatly increased it and given them oxygen/confidence.

In the medium term it's hard to see it ending well for Labour. I only speak for myself, but the day Corbyn goes (and eventually they will get him, because nobody can successfully lead a party where such insolence exists) will be the day I stop voting for them. The majority of those MPs are an absolute shower and I'd vote for most other parties ahead of them. In many ways I have more respect for even Tory MP's than them, as at least they are broadly principle to a cause rather than themselves. I do think lots of people will join me in this as well. They will herald getting rid of Corbyn as their re-birth, but it will be their downfall.

Isn't it the case that MPs - people who have known Corbyn for years - objectively think he's no good/extreme/undependable/not a leader, and that's why they can't raise any enthusiasm for him? That's people who have actually come into daily contact with him rather than seeing him from afar and visualising him as some kind of messiah.

The alternative is to believe that lots of MPs who have served Labour for decades secretly want to destroy the party because they're closet Tories.
 
Yes I agree entirely with that. I am certainly someone who is more sympathetic to the overall New Labour domestic project. You could also argue the Atlee governments proposals oversaw a boom of around 25 years and an adoption of their principles across the house.

The difficulty of the above narrative is that this Labour government in essence are occupying the space vacated by New Labour (if anything they may be slightly to their right) on domestic policy. The issue is politics has moved so far to the right that it looks extremely radical to say as much. The internal debate amongst Blair supporters seems to be between those who believe objectively they had they had the right policies in the 00's and those who want to maintain the principle that you locate yourselves at the centre of politics to win (or in reality just to the left of the Conservatives). Those two things now look increasingly different to one another.

I'd also add into this, what is killing Labour is that it's MP's do not want Corbyn to win. I can think of no political party that has ever got close to power (certainly as close as Labour are) with a majority of it's MP's in open opposition, For the most part I believe this to be for self-serving reasons. It creates a dilemma for the leadership though as to how exactly you tackle this. Electorally there is no easy option.

However even when Corbyn has moderated (his support for Palestine, Trident etc etc) it has not stopped the MP's internally damaging the party, if anything it has greatly increased it and given them oxygen/confidence.

In the medium term it's hard to see it ending well for Labour. I only speak for myself, but the day Corbyn goes (and eventually they will get him, because nobody can successfully lead a party where such insolence exists) will be the day I stop voting for them. The majority of those MPs are an absolute shower and I'd vote for most other parties ahead of them. In many ways I have more respect for even Tory MP's than them, as at least they are broadly principle to a cause rather than themselves. I do think lots of people will join me in this as well. They will herald getting rid of Corbyn as their re-birth, but it will be their downfall.
I think the post Attlee years, aka, Wilson's ' 13yrs of tory misrule' was a corrugated iron-esque series of mini booms and busts all interspersed and sometimes caused by foreign policy faux pas...those 'events' that Super Mac mentions
 
Isn't it the case that MPs - people who have known Corbyn for years - objectively think he's no good/extreme/undependable/not a leader, and that's why they can't raise any enthusiasm for him? That's people who have actually come into daily contact with him rather than seeing him from afar and visualising him as some kind of messiah.

The alternative is to believe that lots of MPs who have served Labour for decades secretly want to destroy the party because they're closet Tories.

That is one analysis, though it is perhaps worth pointing out that many of Labour's longest serving MPs and ex-MPs do get on with him; the people who are most actively opposed are the careerist ones who either joined during Blair's time (when they thought they could make a career out of it) or who have always been hostile to him even when he was a backbench MP, like Margaret Hodge:



As to why the first lot oppose him, I think a lot of it is because he goes against everything they have been taught / have learned about modern British politics - he ignores the key stakeholders (the papers, big donors, the commentariat etc), doesn't sign up to the orthodox creed of entreprenurial/managerial liberalism, isn't pro-US, doesn't (and didn't) participate in the loyalty game and actively champions causes which they do not see the point of. They thought they knew politics better than he did, but events have proved otherwise.
 
Hardly a fair comparison there. Heads of government meet often.

Its less than a year since Dawn Sturgess died as the result of Putin's government using a chemical weapon on the streets of the UK; in fact the date of the proposed meeting is only two or three days out from the first anniversary of that poor woman being poisoned by the deadly nerve agent his governments agents abandoned here.

Obviously though this firm stance of not even making them promise not to do it again is evidence of how the government can be trusted with our security, unlike that Corbyn who doesn't even use perfume.
 
Sounds like that lids had some free European cappuccinos.

They are amazing to be fair. I'm inclined to think if we took the coffee machines on a tour of Britain it'd perhaps be more persuasive than attempts thus far have proven. Although saying that, I can't honestly recall if there was a 'builders tea' option, so they may do more harm than good.
 
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