There is a saying. 'Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it' (or something like that). History tells us that every Labour government since the war have screwed the economy. The current Labour leadership are the worst since the war. Discuss.
Current Affairs The Labour Party
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abelard
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You should give learning from history a try.
NilSatisOptimum
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It was similar achievement as any team managing to keep a clean sheet with Barkley and Stones in your line up.
Labour had no right winning a historical swing seat in the back drop of Brexit and the convicted criminal Fiona Onasanya. Brexit and Tories should have really pushed Labour into third.
He is on 3rd Tory Pm in the age fixed parliament terms, they cant keep it together when odds are in their favour, salty Tories.
Its rather good going for the official opposition.
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Like I said, I'm glad someone other than the Brexit Party won, I'm just not sure the victory was a sign that Corbyn-mania is about to sweep the country.
You are right, of course, but there are those who simply can't see any fault in Corbyn. Reminds me of those people who thought a certain Everton manager was the bee's knees despite all the evidence to the contrary.
Every sentence in this is wrong. Learn history.
Blues Harp
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Did you read that in the torygraph? The media tells you this, not history....
I don't have to read it anywhere, I lived through it.
As per my previous post, I lived through it.
....you certainly have.
tsubaki
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abelard
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Why Labour needs more MPs like Kate Hoey
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/06/why-labour-needs-more-mps-kate-hoey
The Vauxhall MP is voting for the Brexit she wants. If more MPs had her guts, the deadlock would end.
Not for the first time, a vote that would have prevented a no deal Brexit has been defeated, thanks to a smaller-than-normal Conservative rebellion and a concomitant rebellion of Labour MPs. Not for the first time, the internet is particularly angry with Kate Hoey, the Labour MP for Vauxhall.
But Labour would be better off if it had more MPs like Kate Hoey, because Kate Hoey has thought very deeply about her preferred resolution to the Brexit deadlock and has consistently voted in a way that maxmises her chances of getting it. She may be disappointed in the end: we might, still, end up with a very soft Brexit or no Brexit at all. But she has voted according to her own beliefs and has done everything within her power to get the Brexit end state she wants.
The reason why Kate Hoey may get the Brexit end state she wants – a no deal exit that frees the United Kingdom from the reach of the European Court of Justice – is because of MPs like Gareth Snell, who have consistently refused to vote in the way they want.
Snell is one of the most vocal of the Labour MPs who want a Brexit deal that is essentially identical to the one that Theresa May has negotiated, but have refused to vote for it. Along the way, they have also voted against most or all of the measures to prevent a no deal Brexit, whether they have been tabled by Joanna Cherry, Yvette Cooper or today Jeremy Corbyn.
This group is large enough to have more than made up for the hard core of pro-Brexit Conservatives who opposed the deal three times. They have consistently been the difference between victory and defeat, not only for Theresa May’s accord but for a second referendum or any measure to decisively soften Brexit. But they have opted not to do so.
There is a group of noble exceptions – Jim Fitzpatrick, Caroline Flint, Kevin Barron, John Mann, and the two former Labour MPs sitting as independents, Frank Field and Ian Austin, as well as Labour’s longterm pro-Leave backbenchers – who have opted to vote for the deal. They've done so because, whether out of a conviction that the referendum result should be honoured, a belief about how the next election can be won for Labour or a locally-focussed concern about their own seats, they believe that Brexit should happen. But Snell is not one of them and his political activities have been confined to articles about how Brexit is all very difficult and to sabotaging every measure that might resolve the deadlock, one way or another.
I single out Snell because it was Snell who today told MPs that he now realises that it was a “mistake” to vote against Theresa May’s deal and as a result would be abstaining on Corbyn’s motion to prevent no deal. In other words, having voted consistently against leaving the burning building he has now decided to vote to lock the doors and windows.
Why has Snell, who before he was an MP described Brexit as a “massive pile of [Poor language removed]”, become one of the Labour MPs voting against a second referendum and against measures to prevent no deal? The answer is that he is worried about what the third of Labour voters in Stoke on Trent Central to vote to leave the EU will do to him if he doesn’t. So why didn’t he take any of the three opportunities to vote for the deal? Because he’s worried about what Labour members in his constituency party will do to him if he does.
Snell’s preferred outcome is that the whole of the Labour party should pursue a Brexit policy that would obviously be destructive to it in order to avoid any difficult conversations with either the people of Stoke on Trent Central or the activists of Stoke on Trent Central CLP. Given that the bulk of Labour MPs have understandably resisted moves that they oppose personally and would be politically costly, he has instead ended up voting against May’s deal not one, not two, but three times.
As a result, Theresa May’s political career is dead and her deal may be too. There is no guarantee that Snell will be given a fourth chance to vote for a deal, and no guarantee that the opportunity to stop a no-deal Brexit, which he and others like him sabotaged, will be repeated either.
Unlike Hoey, Snell doesn’t think that no deal is a desirable end state. He thinks it would be catastrophic to the country and would have dire consequences for many people, including his constituents. But he has decided, through inaction and failure of nerve, that it would be better if those consequences are visited upon his country than upon him.
If Snell, and MPs like him, followed Hoey’s example, and either pursued the Brexit he wants in his heart or the one he believes to be the best political choice, then the deadlock would be resolved. Instead, the United Kingdom faces the real prospect of a no deal Brexit.
* * *
You may now resume your regularly scheduled whinging that everything is at all times entirely Corbyn's fault.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/06/why-labour-needs-more-mps-kate-hoey
The Vauxhall MP is voting for the Brexit she wants. If more MPs had her guts, the deadlock would end.
Not for the first time, a vote that would have prevented a no deal Brexit has been defeated, thanks to a smaller-than-normal Conservative rebellion and a concomitant rebellion of Labour MPs. Not for the first time, the internet is particularly angry with Kate Hoey, the Labour MP for Vauxhall.
But Labour would be better off if it had more MPs like Kate Hoey, because Kate Hoey has thought very deeply about her preferred resolution to the Brexit deadlock and has consistently voted in a way that maxmises her chances of getting it. She may be disappointed in the end: we might, still, end up with a very soft Brexit or no Brexit at all. But she has voted according to her own beliefs and has done everything within her power to get the Brexit end state she wants.
The reason why Kate Hoey may get the Brexit end state she wants – a no deal exit that frees the United Kingdom from the reach of the European Court of Justice – is because of MPs like Gareth Snell, who have consistently refused to vote in the way they want.
Snell is one of the most vocal of the Labour MPs who want a Brexit deal that is essentially identical to the one that Theresa May has negotiated, but have refused to vote for it. Along the way, they have also voted against most or all of the measures to prevent a no deal Brexit, whether they have been tabled by Joanna Cherry, Yvette Cooper or today Jeremy Corbyn.
This group is large enough to have more than made up for the hard core of pro-Brexit Conservatives who opposed the deal three times. They have consistently been the difference between victory and defeat, not only for Theresa May’s accord but for a second referendum or any measure to decisively soften Brexit. But they have opted not to do so.
There is a group of noble exceptions – Jim Fitzpatrick, Caroline Flint, Kevin Barron, John Mann, and the two former Labour MPs sitting as independents, Frank Field and Ian Austin, as well as Labour’s longterm pro-Leave backbenchers – who have opted to vote for the deal. They've done so because, whether out of a conviction that the referendum result should be honoured, a belief about how the next election can be won for Labour or a locally-focussed concern about their own seats, they believe that Brexit should happen. But Snell is not one of them and his political activities have been confined to articles about how Brexit is all very difficult and to sabotaging every measure that might resolve the deadlock, one way or another.
I single out Snell because it was Snell who today told MPs that he now realises that it was a “mistake” to vote against Theresa May’s deal and as a result would be abstaining on Corbyn’s motion to prevent no deal. In other words, having voted consistently against leaving the burning building he has now decided to vote to lock the doors and windows.
Why has Snell, who before he was an MP described Brexit as a “massive pile of [Poor language removed]”, become one of the Labour MPs voting against a second referendum and against measures to prevent no deal? The answer is that he is worried about what the third of Labour voters in Stoke on Trent Central to vote to leave the EU will do to him if he doesn’t. So why didn’t he take any of the three opportunities to vote for the deal? Because he’s worried about what Labour members in his constituency party will do to him if he does.
Snell’s preferred outcome is that the whole of the Labour party should pursue a Brexit policy that would obviously be destructive to it in order to avoid any difficult conversations with either the people of Stoke on Trent Central or the activists of Stoke on Trent Central CLP. Given that the bulk of Labour MPs have understandably resisted moves that they oppose personally and would be politically costly, he has instead ended up voting against May’s deal not one, not two, but three times.
As a result, Theresa May’s political career is dead and her deal may be too. There is no guarantee that Snell will be given a fourth chance to vote for a deal, and no guarantee that the opportunity to stop a no-deal Brexit, which he and others like him sabotaged, will be repeated either.
Unlike Hoey, Snell doesn’t think that no deal is a desirable end state. He thinks it would be catastrophic to the country and would have dire consequences for many people, including his constituents. But he has decided, through inaction and failure of nerve, that it would be better if those consequences are visited upon his country than upon him.
If Snell, and MPs like him, followed Hoey’s example, and either pursued the Brexit he wants in his heart or the one he believes to be the best political choice, then the deadlock would be resolved. Instead, the United Kingdom faces the real prospect of a no deal Brexit.
* * *
You may now resume your regularly scheduled whinging that everything is at all times entirely Corbyn's fault.
Is this not a result of all governments to a greater or lesser degree though mate? They tend to get voted out when they struggle.
The reality is, certainly in a modern context Britain was in far better shape in 2010 than in 2019. In the last40 years the longest period of economic growth/stability occurred under Brown/Blair 1997-2008.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Eventually all governments fail, every PM gets voted out, but it’s the state of the country you leave behind that counts.....
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