Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Number_25]

Surely Brexit has also taught us that trying to lump millions of people under one ideological hat is kinda foolhardy, as grasping exactly what kind of Brexit people want is next to impossible, so I'm not sure how we can possibly say that all Labour voters back Corbyn (or the Blairites). We can probably say that all Momentum members back Corbyn, but they, and indeed the membership in general, represent a tiny minority of the overall Labour electorate.

You are aware that there are socialists in this country, yeah?

 

[The binman chronicles]

You're looking short term, I;m looking long term. Big difference,

We have over a 100 years of data. It shows that Labour have only ever really been successful once over a longer period and that was when it moved to the centre.

And even then it couldn't fulfill it's promise as the two main protagonists were at war with each other and the party divided up behind them.

Of course my initial statement ignores the lasting great things Labour have achieved under some of these short administrations, like create the NHS, but my point is even that Government only lasted one year and a few months into a second term.

 

[magicjuan]

Views like this aren't helping either. If you think the reason why Labour lost the last 3 elections is that they had too many moderates/Blairites/Liberal/Tory lites, or however you want to put it then I think you will end up very disappointed.

I can understand you live in a hotbed of Labour and the excitement and the sense that you are finally going to achieve a lasting social change, but if you come to where I live there is none of that.

As far as I can see it the only way Labour win the next election is if the Tories have a complete meltdown and have taken the economy with them (And days like yesterday and today just reinforce that view). If that happens then Corbyn with a manifesto packed full of noble but expensive promises has to try and implement it at a point when the economy is going backwards. That will lead to either a massive deficit that will cause him to be booted out after one term or if they are sensible, then everyone will berate them for not changing enough.

You win elections by broadening your voting base not trimming it.

The tories are broadening the church as more and more people are being hurt by their policies.
It isn't really just about tories or labour it's also about neo liberalism and the widening disparity it creates. Across Europe and the US there is a growing opposition to these policies.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You are aware that there are socialists in this country, yeah?

Of course, I'm just not sure there are 13 million of them.

 

[davek]

We have over a 100 years of data. It shows that Labour have only ever really been successful once over a longer period and that was when it moved to the centre.

And even then it couldn't fulfill it's promise as the two main protagonists were at war with each other and the party divided up behind them.

Of course my initial statement ignores the lasting great things Labour have achieved under some of these short administrations, like create the NHS, but my point is even that Government only lasted one year and a few months into a second term.

Besides the 45 Labour Governement that you mention, any of the Labour Governments of the 60s and 70s was peddling policies and implimenting them which were to the left of the current LP leadership's. And the Tory Governments of the pre-Thatcher era were presiding over a social and economic policy that cemented that post-war compromise too. It wasn't called Butskillism for nothing.

 

[larrygobfiend]

The message is amostky about anti-semitism. Now I;m not being cruel here, but no one is really arsed in day to day life about so called anti-semitism...they just aren't.

I';m happy to see the next election (which will be soon now IMO) go to the Tories. They'll suffer the Brexit era and own it, and Labour candidates will get the quick chance to put these neo-cons who just jumped ship in the bin where they belong.

The LP left need time to get the bloodletting done. Once the bulk of the Blairites are out then a real LP will re-emerge.

It's a battle that needed fighting two years ago. But there;'s no time like the present.

I literally can't remember a news article concerning anti semitism in the UK before Corbyn became leader. I can't think of a single Jewish hate crime that's been significant enough to appear on the news.

I might seem ignorant and my memory is terrible, but I just can't think of anything. Has it really been that much of an issue over here?

 

[Eggs]

Besides the 45 Labour Governement that you mention, any of the Labour Governments of the 60s and 70s was peddling policies and implimenting them which were to the left of the current LP leadership's. And the Tory Governments of the pre-Thatcher era were presiding over a social and economic policy that cemented that post-war compromise too. It wasn't called Butskillism for nothing.

....for me its less about policy than it is about harassment and bullying. It was similar with Militant. It’s politics supported by hooliganism and Corbyn supporters on here don’t seem to want to condem it. It won’t be supported sufficiently for Government, not because of policy but because decent people want decency.

 

[larrygobfiend]

That "funny tinge" comment has pretty much already been brushed under the carpet. The media love these Tory lite bellends.

 

[zzr45]

I literally can't remember a news article concerning anti semitism in the UK before Corbyn became leader. I can't think of a single Jewish hate crime that's been significant enough to appear on the news.

I might seem ignorant and my memory is terrible, but I just can't think of anything. Has it really been that much of an issue over here?

Greater Manchester has highest anti-Semitic crime rate in UK

Anti-Semitic crime in Greater Manchester was at a higher level than anywhere else in the UK, according to a new report.

www.bbc.co.uk

It’s existed before Corbyn. It’s been accelerated by the uptake of Social Media.

You know when people talk about Labour supporters not taking it seriously? You’ve just suggested it’s been brought to the fore to beat Corbyn with. Staggering.

 

[larrygobfiend]

Greater Manchester has highest anti-Semitic crime rate in UK

Anti-Semitic crime in Greater Manchester was at a higher level than anywhere else in the UK, according to a new report.

www.bbc.co.uk

It’s existed before Corbyn. It’s been accelerated by the uptake of Social Media.

You know when people talk about Labour supporters not taking it seriously? You’ve just suggested it’s been brought to the fore to beat Corbyn with. Staggering.

Fair enough, like I said, I might seem a bit ignorant. It just hasn't been heavily covered by the media until Corbyn became leader. That is a fact.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

Reported on ITV as 'Joan Ryan MP, who's not jewish...'. Purposeful omission of the fact she is, and retains, chair of the labour friends of Israel.
Lucretia Berger was announced on news the other day as 'Jewish MP', none of the others announced as catholic etc.
An agenda being reinforced here.

A shadowy, secret agenda at that, magicjuan.

What is the joke with continually calling her Lucretia btw? Her name is Luciana.

 

[zzr45]

Fair enough, like I said, I might seem a bit ignorant. It just hasn't been heavily covered by the media until Corbyn became leader. That is a fact.

It’s been covered from a number of different angles, example being the article I posted, abuse Tottenham fans were getting, vandalism of holocaust monuments etc. It’s not been covered as part of the problems of a political party to the length it has with Labour under Corbyn, but is that because previous leaderships dealt with it better?

The Corbyn led Labour Party seems to have attracted a certain type of person that uses the same language and reasoning as the tinfoil hatted conspiracy theorist of 5-10 years ago who believed that everything cane back to the Jews. I don’t believe that it’s a coincidence.

 

[larrygobfiend]

It’s been covered from a number of different angles, example being the article I posted, abuse Tottenham fans were getting, vandalism of holocaust monuments etc. It’s not been covered as part of the problems of a political party to the length it has with Labour under Corbyn, but is that because previous leaderships dealt with it better?

The Corbyn led Labour Party seems to have attracted a certain type of person that uses the same language and reasoning as the tinfoil hatted conspiracy theorist of 5-10 years ago who believed that everything cane back to the Jews. I don’t believe that it’s a coincidence.

Respectfully, the article you posted is 7 years old. I've googled damaged holocaust memorials in the UK and nothing comes up (not saying it hasn't happened). Fair enough the Spurs abuse with the hissing etc has been going on for decades and it's not on. The point I'm trying to make (albeit very badly) is that there had been very little coverage of anti semitism on these shores before Corbyn became leader of the Labour party and now suddenly it's become the most prominent story of the past year.

 

[Eggs]

...3 Conservative MPs have now left the party and defected to the Independent Group.

 

[abelard]

...3 Conservative MPs have now left the party and defected to the Independent Group.

Can we all agree from now on to refer to them here as the Diberal Lemocrats?