Current Affairs The Labour Party

[davek]

Morning Dave. Keeping in mind I probably feel exactly the same as you on lobbying & large donations from individuals or corporations I’m not sure this counts as “sleaze” given the current rules.

I know you will have read the third paragraph so I don’t need to quote it. So do Labour need to always go beyond the rules?

I also won’t claim to be a Captain of Industry but I have some working knowledge of how doing business with China works & launching a major IPO like Shein…yeah you’re going to have both high level current politicians & their like acting as consultants involved.

WTaF?!

 

[davek]

The Chagos Island deal struck by Starmer:

Farage: "There is, I can assure you, having been in America last week, knowing also the incoming defense secretary [Pete Hegseth] very well, there is outright hostility to this deal."

Steven Doughty Red Labour Foreign office Minister: "We’re looking very forward to working with [the incoming Trump administration], and I’m sure that they will be being briefed on the full detail of this deal. And I am confident that the details of this arrangement will allay any concerns."

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Interesting piece on the convergence of minimum wage jobs and graduate positions

Britain’s big squeeze: middle-class and minimum-wage

The strange politics of wage compression

www.economist.com

Particularly interesting is that by virtue of the minimum wage rising so much, every single graduate will now start paying back their loan as soon as they start working full time, so will be hit with a hefty tax rate. I wonder if this will deter many from going to university if they can get the same money in Starbucks but minus the student loan?

For young high-flyers with an interest in marine conservation, it is the perfect gig. A charity is hunting for eager graduates (with at least a high upper-second degree and excellent A-level results, naturally) to work 35 hours a week as a guardian of the ocean. At £25,300 ($32,110), the annual pay is typical for a graduate role. Come April next year, it will also be near the minimum wage.

Graduate schemes with a minimum-wage salary will become only more common after Rachel Reeves, the chancellor, cranked up the statutory minimum in the budget last month. A rise of 6.7%, to £12.21 an hour, will kick in next spring. Someone on a minimum wage working 40 hours a week can expect to earn £25,396.80 a year, slightly more than a prospective turtle-botherer.


Wage compression—when wages for skilled and unskilled labour begin to merge—has already changed Britain’s labour market. Workers in the middle have struggled; workers at the bottom have, in relative terms, done well. In 1997 a median earner took home almost double the income of someone at the tenth percentile, according to the Resolution Foundation (RF), a think-tank. In 2023 they managed only 50% more. That is largely owing to Britain’s increasingly generous minimum wage, which, at 66% of median income, is now one of the highest on the planet.

In an era of stagnant wages for Britain’s middle class, normally precarious professions—bar workers, cleaners and shop-floor staff—have enjoyed a relative bonanza due to government diktat. Median hourly wages for bar workers jumped by 26% in real terms between 2011 and 2023, according to the rf. In contrast, median salaries overall rose by a paltry 1.9%. In a country as class-obsessed as Britain, that raises an unpleasant question: what happens when middle-class jobs attract the same pay as working-class ones?

Many have not yet absorbed how much has changed. A decade of lousy overall wage growth means that some employers, and prospective employees, assume that any five-figure salary starting with a number two is still relatively generous. A junior graphic designer (preferably with a degree and two years’ experience) can expect to earn £22,000, which will soon be below minimum wage. An organiser for a “climate parliament” can command a similar salary, provided they are fluent in English and French.

But those who have clocked the change are often unhappy. Junior doctors, who have been fighting the government over pay for much of the past decade, are the noisiest example. The British Medical Association, their union, has made much of the fact that Pret A Manger employees can earn more than a doctor. For some this was a sign of snobbery (are doctors inherently better people than baristas?). For others it was mere fairness (they are certainly more useful after a car crash). Either way the strategy worked: among Labour’s first actions in office earlier this year was handing doctors a 22% pay rise over two years.


Being middle class and on a minimum wage has specific perils. In a progressive tax system those who earn less, pay less. But when graduates are badly paid, this deal turns to dust. From April the threshold for paying back a student loan (£25,000) and the minimum wage on a full-time job will cross over. The result is that any graduate with a full-time job, whether that be stacking shelves in Tesco or training as a lawyer, will face a de facto marginal tax rate of at least 37%. Britain has developed a bizarre tax system based on age (pensioners are exempt from national-insurance contributions) and education (graduates take home less money). If history shows anything, it is that creating a group of people who are overeducated and overtaxed can lead to funny things.

Should voters begin to gripe about wage compression, it would mark the end of the closest thing to a free lunch there has been in British public policy. The minimum wage is the most successful policy intervention of the past quarter-century, argues Nye Cominetti of the rf. Usually policies have pros and cons. The pros came (wages went up for the hitherto badly paid) but the cons never seemed to arrive (unemployment was barely affected). As a result, successive governments, both Conservative and Labour, jacked up the minimum wage at almost every opportunity, like monkeys in a laboratory hooked up to an opium dispenser.

But the political consequences of wage compression cannot be dodged forever. When Mr Cominetti appeared on Radio 5 recently to extol the virtues of a higher minimum wage, an angry lorry driver preceded him. “What’s the point in you working extremely hard if you can earn almost the same just doing minimum-wage jobs?” he asked. An alliance of lorry drivers and doctors would be curious but potentially powerful. Pay compression is not popular so much as little-noticed, at least for now. Politicians confuse equality with fairness at their peril.

The world turned upside down​

Politics is less about where people are in the pecking order than where they think they should be. Graduates who work in non-graduate roles are more likely to vote for radical-right parties than their peers in graduate jobs, point out Ben Ansell and Jane Gingrich, in a useful paper that does away with the idea that degree-holders in the West are a monolithic blob. The “never made it” are as much of a problem as the “left behind”.

Perhaps Britain is happy to be a little more socially democratic. Those in the middle can swallow lower wages in the knowledge that it might make Britain more competitive. They can comfort themselves with the fact that those at the bottom are better off. Maybe their earnings will improve in later life. For many, however, wage compression brings only the realisation that the trappings of a middle-class life—such as a degree, a profession or a job saving turtles—are insufficient compensation for a salary that places them on the lowest rung. That is not where they expected to be.

 

[peteblue]

Pensioners have worked out how to get free accommodation, private medicals, free meals and free heating this winter……

 

[Rita_Poon]

There's something very peculiar about that pic. A certain token character from South Park perhaps maybe...

 

[peteblue]

Interesting piece on the convergence of minimum wage jobs and graduate positions

Britain’s big squeeze: middle-class and minimum-wage

The strange politics of wage compression

www.economist.com

Particularly interesting is that by virtue of the minimum wage rising so much, every single graduate will now start paying back their loan as soon as they start working full time, so will be hit with a hefty tax rate. I wonder if this will deter many from going to university if they can get the same money in Starbucks but minus the student loan?

I’m more concerned with the tens of thousands of lower qualified people in the leisure, hospitality, food production, food sales, shops etc, who will lose their jobs due to business closures, staff reductions due to changes to NIC and its levels of kicking in. Unemployment is already rising, it will only get worse as this budget kicks in. I think it should be mandatory for all MP’s to spend a month or more working in the real world of shops, farms, pubs, restaurants etc before they are allowed to take up office, then perhaps they may comprehend. The elite will always be fine and will always look after themselves at the expense of the poor…

 

[Rita_Poon]

I’m more concerned with the tens of thousands of lower qualified people in the leisure, hospitality, food production, food sales, shops etc, who will lose their jobs due to business closures, staff reductions due to changes to NIC and its levels of kicking in. Unemployment is already rising, it will only get worse as this budget kicks in. I think it should be mandatory for all MP’s to spend a month or more working in the real world of shops, farms, pubs, restaurants etc before they are allowed to take up office, then perhaps they may comprehend. The elite will always be fine and will always look after themselves at the expense of the poor…

Such convenient timing. As an aside, what sort of 'real world'* penance do you think is due for someone entering the gun running/weapons sales industries?

 

[peteblue]

Such convenient timing. As an aside, what sort of 'real world'* penance do you think is due for someone entering the gun running/weapons sales industries?

I lived in one of the poorest areas of Liverpool, I became an apprentice, I worked hard and became a manager, then a director, having to study in my own time at Liverpool John Moore’s, Coventry and Warwick uni’s, as well as backing it up with specialist programmes from the OU. I employed thousands of grad, phd’s and sat on a number of boards of several major companies. I was the CEO of an American company and throughout all of this traveled all around the globe. BUT, I never forgot where I came from, nor how hard it was to achieve in spite of Oxbridge folk looking down on me before they ended up working for me. I’m now retired, I have only one hobby, owning a pub and working with people who seek only to serve others and it’s the most fun I’ve ever had. I love my staff and they appreciate it. If I gave anyone any advice it would be never forget where you came from, treat everyone around you or under you with respect because there will be some who can grow to be just as good if not better than you are.

Starmer and Co, Boris, Rishi and co have never done this, it would do them and the country the world of good to understand real people……

 

[Bruce Wayne]

View attachment 281833

Pensioners have worked out how to get free accommodation, private medicals, free meals and free heating this winter……

Aside from the grim comparison, I presume you're all in favour of removing the absurd ban on people working while their asylum claims are being processed then Pete? Then they could be self sufficient rather than rely on the state. Or, sit down, this is crazy, we make claiming asylum a whole lot easier, so people spend the thousands they give to traffickers here setting themselves up. @Rita_Poon I'm sure the BBC docu spoke about these outlandish suggestions, right?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I’m more concerned with the tens of thousands of lower qualified people in the leisure, hospitality, food production, food sales, shops etc, who will lose their jobs due to business closures, staff reductions due to changes to NIC and its levels of kicking in. Unemployment is already rising, it will only get worse as this budget kicks in. I think it should be mandatory for all MP’s to spend a month or more working in the real world of shops, farms, pubs, restaurants etc before they are allowed to take up office, then perhaps they may comprehend. The elite will always be fine and will always look after themselves at the expense of the poor…

Did you read the article? It literally said that since the minimum wage was introduced, the "poor" have done extremely well, which isn't the case for the middle class (or elites). A phrase often used is the "hollowed middle", as the wealthiest have done very nicely, thank you very much, as have the lowest earners...

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I lived in one of the poorest areas of Liverpool, I became an apprentice, I worked hard and became a manager, then a director, having to study in my own time at Liverpool John Moore’s, Coventry and Warwick uni’s, as well as backing it up with specialist programmes from the OU. I employed thousands of grad, phd’s and sat on a number of boards of several major companies. I was the CEO of an American company and throughout all of this traveled all around the globe. BUT, I never forgot where I came from, nor how hard it was to achieve in spite of Oxbridge folk looking down on me before they ended up working for me. I’m now retired, I have only one hobby, owning a pub and working with people who seek only to serve others and it’s the most fun I’ve ever had. I love my staff and they appreciate it. If I gave anyone any advice it would be never forget where you came from, treat everyone around you or under you with respect because there will be some who can grow to be just as good if not better than you are.

Starmer and Co, Boris, Rishi and co have never done this, it would do them and the country the world of good to understand real people……

It's not a bad suggestion Pete, and, I've made it before, but I feel you might be well served by working with asylum seekers so you'd grow to understand that they're real people too. Maybe you can squeeze out some time from the pub to volunteer and give young people the benefit of your years of experience?

 

[Kurt.]

I lived in one of the poorest areas of Liverpool, I became an apprentice, I worked hard and became a manager, then a director, having to study in my own time at Liverpool John Moore’s, Coventry and Warwick uni’s, as well as backing it up with specialist programmes from the OU. I employed thousands of grad, phd’s and sat on a number of boards of several major companies. I was the CEO of an American company and throughout all of this traveled all around the globe. BUT, I never forgot where I came from, nor how hard it was to achieve in spite of Oxbridge folk looking down on me before they ended up working for me. I’m now retired, I have only one hobby, owning a pub and working with people who seek only to serve others and it’s the most fun I’ve ever had. I love my staff and they appreciate it. If I gave anyone any advice it would be never forget where you came from, treat everyone around you or under you with respect because there will be some who can grow to be just as good if not better than you are.

Starmer and Co, Boris, Rishi and co have never done this, it would do them and the country the world of good to understand real people……

All that’s missing in there is your dad was a toolmaker

 

[Sean Ashley]

It is something that has been an issue for new graduates for many years. I mentioned it back in June. I highlighted it in bold.

Most likely due to two reasons the volume of young age people staying in education is too high and the job sectors in this country don't have enough positions to cater for all the graduates each year. So the over supply to demand give employers all the power.

Interesting piece on the convergence of minimum wage jobs and graduate positions

Britain’s big squeeze: middle-class and minimum-wage

The strange politics of wage compression

www.economist.com

Particularly interesting is that by virtue of the minimum wage rising so much, every single graduate will now start paying back their loan as soon as they start working full time, so will be hit with a hefty tax rate. I wonder if this will deter many from going to university if they can get the same money in Starbucks but minus the student loan?

I agree with everything you said, Universities run as non-profits and the revenues from domestic students don't cover the costs for the University. With International students, Postgraduate students, and research grants providing additional revenue streams. I would state for international are mostly non EU with EU admissions falling since Brexit.

Opening the national conversation on university funding

We need to have a conversation about how universities are funded. Universities must continue to compete on a global scale, support innovative research and teaching, and educate the next generation.

www.universitiesuk.ac.uk

We really need to focus though on whether University is the best option for young adults. The latest figures suggest among 18 year olds 35.8% went into higher education. A jump from 24.7% in 2006. And is University a false economy for students? We know most young people choose University as to stay with their friends and enjoy the night life. And don't focus on studying until the second or third year of their studies. We must also have to consider why students feel forced into higher education it must mean alternative choices are either not available or not easily sourced.

We need to make apprenticeships, shadowing, free work experience and other similar routes more mainstream, to give proper alternatives to stop just forcing teenagers to choose their careers at 13/14 years old.

How much are tuition fees in the UK and is university worth it?

With rising tuition fees and living costs, do higher graduate earnings cover the cost of a degree?

www.bbc.co.uk

With growing numbers the campus can't house everyone and for the unlucky ones who couldn't get into campus residences the options remaining options are expensive and really exploitive. We need to make sure students are not crippled by high rent costs and there should be caps to limit the profit seeking nature of landlords. Which I was glad Starmer mentioned it had to stop with bidding wars.

Existential housing crisis at UK universities leaving students struggling, says NUS

The university experience, for some, is quite different to what they had in mind. While the student population in the UK grows, the number of available student houses has dropped.

news.sky.com

Personally I also dislike the lower wage for younger people and apprenticeships the figures provided in the article below. I think the lower pay is a way of allowing big corporates such as McDonalds to make mega profits as their workforce is made up of kids. McDonald's GB website state the average age of the workforce at 20 years old. I would make it that anyone above the age of 16 has the same minimum hourly pay rate.

My final point is I would like the government to implement minimum salary boundaries for specific job roles to stop fresh university graduates having to take £20-22k (below the median salary in the UK) starting roles which require degrees, especially degrees that require specialist knowledge.

What is the average age of a McDonald's employee?

www.mcdonalds.com

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66043e0991a320001a82b0e7/The_National_Minimum_Wage_in_2024.pdf

 

[edge]

Interesting piece on the convergence of minimum wage jobs and graduate positions

Britain’s big squeeze: middle-class and minimum-wage

The strange politics of wage compression

www.economist.com

Particularly interesting is that by virtue of the minimum wage rising so much, every single graduate will now start paying back their loan as soon as they start working full time, so will be hit with a hefty tax rate. I wonder if this will deter many from going to university if they can get the same money in Starbucks but minus the student loan?

Should wipe the slate clean on student loans.
Then entirely fund the ones the country needs, medical, science, engineering ect.
As long as they stay in the country for x amout of years afterwards, so we get the benefit of it as well.
The rest can take a loan to pursue there life in art or whatever.
Love to know the figures for students that actually do a job connected to what they went to uni and got into massive debt for?

 

[Rita_Poon]

Aside from the grim comparison, I presume you're all in favour of removing the absurd ban on people working while their asylum claims are being processed then Pete? Then they could be self sufficient rather than rely on the state. Or, sit down, this is crazy, we make claiming asylum a whole lot easier, so people spend the thousands they give to traffickers here setting themselves up. @Rita_Poon I'm sure the BBC docu spoke about these outlandish suggestions, right?

The rules surrounding the often years spent on the asylum wait, yes.