Current Affairs The Labour Party

[bluestevon]

I wouldn’t expect so no. Because 40bn is a drop in the ocean of what is required given the years of those things being neglected.

But does that mean we should just allow people to silo wealth for generations when clearly they aren’t using the capital as efficiently as they should? It’s not really much of an advert for capitalism is it?

Capitalism is about wealth creation, democracy is about freedom of choice what to do with that generated wealth.

Wanna be a democratic capitalist society then those are the rules mate.

 

[orchard]

With relation to farmers, it's estimated 73% of farmers aren't impacted by these budget changes to agricultural inheritance relief.
Alot of those crying hard about it will be the extremely asset rich ones

Yeah, I think this might be slightly misleading, in that that percentage is skewed heavily by smallholders. Most industrial farms that supermarkets use/contract will quite easily pass the C1.5mil threshold with a house, tractor and a few outbuildings.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

In other words, higher taxes in other areas are needed.

Again, folk will be squealing, particularly the very wealthy.

No one wants to pay tax. But if we want stuff provided at local and national govt level we have to pay for it.

If anything inheritance tax is a 'political' tax. For the majority it is hidden, we'll never see it or feel the effects. Parties of both colours have kept it. The Tories talk up getting rid or reduce it. Labour will never get rid. Doesn't affect too many voters, but adds to the coffers.

I'd love to have seen far more on the end of actually getting stuff done for less. I mean most of these tax rises would have been swallowed up by HS2 being well over budget. Multiply that across the various capital projects and it's a huge amount of waste. Even with the NHS, the increases in the NHS spending will largely deliver bugger all as there hasn't been any corresponding change in local government (ie social care) spending. This has a knock on effect on "levelling up", as the vast majority of all local government spending now is on social care, but because this isn't the political hot potato the NHS is, it doesn't attract such largesse.

 

[Alan Whittle]

We are going to let all our staff in the pub to work from home… not sure how that will work out mind, could be a queue at the bar…..

Longer mop handles for the cleaners are tax deductible though?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I wouldn’t expect so no. Because 40bn is a drop in the ocean of what is required given the years of those things being neglected.

But does that mean we should just allow people to silo wealth for generations when clearly they aren’t using the capital as efficiently as they should? It’s not really much of an advert for capitalism is it?

I suppose this is the problem, or at least a challenge, as many might look at the government spend, which is the highest as a proportion of GDP since the war, and find it baffling that not only are public services so awful but that same government is demanding even more money to supposedly fix things. Granted, those same people are quite probably oblivious to the huge sums that go from the public purse on debt servicing and pensions (both via the state pension and the define benefit pension of public sector employees), which largely result in this seemingly incomprehensible situation, but the matter of value for money must surely be asked?

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

I'd love to have seen far more on the end of actually getting stuff done for less. I mean most of these tax rises would have been swallowed up by HS2 being well over budget. Multiply that across the various capital projects and it's a huge amount of waste. Even with the NHS, the increases in the NHS spending will largely deliver bugger all as there hasn't been any corresponding change in local government (ie social care) spending. This has a knock on effect on "levelling up", as the vast majority of all local government spending now is on social care, but because this isn't the political hot potato the NHS is, it doesn't attract such largesse.

Yes, there's an irony in that the Tory 2020 rhetoric was all about public sector waste and creating efficiencies.

They cut and cut and cut in some areas, who certainly made efficiencies, but as you point out flagrantly chucked cash around in other areas.

And yes, Labour need to get a grip on capital project expenditure and project management. Tendering processes clearly leave governments open to being fisted.

 

[bluestevon]

I suppose this is the problem, or at least a challenge, as many might look at the government spend, which is the highest as a proportion of GDP since the war, and find it baffling that not only are public services so awful but that same government is demanding even more money to supposedly fix things. Granted, those same people are quite probably oblivious to the huge sums that go from the public purse on debt servicing and pensions (both via the state pension and the define benefit pension of public sector employees), which largely result in this seemingly incomprehensible situation, but the matter of value for money must surely be asked?

Value for money disappeared at some point under Blair to be replaced with 'in real terms'

Does t matter to me what you spend if you are recieving less and inferior, be that from the welfare system, education, housing NHS, defence or any other sector.

Remember working for them on two occasions when they decided to upgrade computing systems and networks, both were disasters, both went in massively over budget, both massively delayed, and both not fit for purpose, but both counted on the amount spent on the relevant departments.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yes, there's an irony in that the Tory 2020 rhetoric was all about public sector waste and creating efficiencies.

They cut and cut and cut in some areas, who certainly made efficiencies, but as you point out flagrantly chucked cash around in other areas.

And yes, Labour need to get a grip on capital project expenditure and project management. Tendering processes clearly leave governments open to being fisted.

And the changes to regulations and planning still seem largely ignored.

 

[bluestevon]

Yes, there's an irony in that the Tory 2020 rhetoric was all about public sector waste and creating efficiencies.

They cut and cut and cut in some areas, who certainly made efficiencies, but as you point out flagrantly chucked cash around in other areas.

And yes, Labour need to get a grip on capital project expenditure and project management. Tendering processes clearly leave governments open to being fisted.

Efficiency became a code word for sacking people in the sector involved, usually the ones actually working hardest for the least money, very rarely do efficiency measures reduce the top of the pyramid

 

[bluestevon]

Yes, there's an irony in that the Tory 2020 rhetoric was all about public sector waste and creating efficiencies.

They cut and cut and cut in some areas, who certainly made efficiencies, but as you point out flagrantly chucked cash around in other areas.

And yes, Labour need to get a grip on capital project expenditure and project management. Tendering processes clearly leave governments open to being fisted.

Efficiency became a code word for sacking people in the sector involved, usually the ones actually working hardest for the least money, very rarely do efficiency measures reduce the top of the pyramid

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yes, there's an irony in that the Tory 2020 rhetoric was all about public sector waste and creating efficiencies.

They cut and cut and cut in some areas, who certainly made efficiencies, but as you point out flagrantly chucked cash around in other areas.

And yes, Labour need to get a grip on capital project expenditure and project management. Tendering processes clearly leave governments open to being fisted.

Reshaping British Infrastructure: Global Lessons to Improve Project Delivery

Drawing upon data from over 2,300 projects globally, we explore why the UK must improve its infrastructure delivery and how it might begin to do so.

www.bcg.com

Delivering flat road projects in the UK is twice as expensive as in France. The average cost for a flat road in the UK is £8.45 million per lane km, compared to the European average of £5.77 million per lane km and £4.22 million per lane km in France

This is an example, and you can extrapolate that across a host of different areas. We seem to focus so much on either just throwing money at stuff (because that grabs headlines) or cutting staff (often for the same reasons), when just governing better and smarter would be more effective. I had hopes that this government might do that, alongside being less sleazy, but I'm not sure that's what's unfolding. As the article explains, we generally need to invest more in infrastructure and also get much better at delivering value for money. I'm worried we'll do neither.

 

[Alan Whittle]

@Bruce Wayne public services are not “so awful”. Every day thousands of people are made well, the majority of public transport runs to time, infrastructure repairs and investments are implemented. What is “so awful” in our I demand instant gratification society is the entitled expectation that Starbucks levels of service must apply everywhere. Not everyone gets what they want/need nor when they want it. That’s life.
What investment hasn’t caught up with is people’s expectations.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

@Bruce Wayne public services are not “so awful”. Every day thousands of people are made well, the majority of public transport runs to time, infrastructure repairs and investments are implemented. What is “so awful” in our I demand instant gratification society is the entitled expectation that Starbucks levels of service must apply everywhere. Not everyone gets what they want/need nor when they want it. That’s life.
What investment hasn’t caught up with is people’s expectations.

I can only assume you haven't had the pleasure of using Lewisham Hospital lately (you may be in Mayday's catchment, which is even worse). While Google reviews aren't always a good barometer, they are universally "really" bad.

Seriously though, six months ago, the same people would most definitely have been saying public services are on their knees because of the Tories, but now a different flag is above the door, they're doing a sterling job under trying circumstances. The two can't both be true. Not picking on you, but you yourself did so in the run up to the election - https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/uk-general-election-july.119688/page-6#post-11299438

This isn't a partisan complaint or a knock on anyone working in the NHS, but we have unfortunately developed a culture whereby one's views on the public sector are shaped by one's political persuasion, with Tories thinking they're rubbish and Labour thinking they're awesome (or their relative greatness/awfulness shaped by whether "your" team is in office), such that we can't really have an honest discussion on the current state of things.

 

[neil999]

Wonder if they could tweak the farm thing, have some sort of discretionary relief for those who can prove they are 'cash poor' altho means testing is difficult

 

[neil999]

The million quid thing is quite a clever figure in relation to how the general populace will take I tho...