Current Affairs The Labour Party

[davek]

I’ve seen you make this comment a few times and I don’t know that anybody’s ever really replied

For me it’s normal to have major crises/conflict in other countries at least high up the agenda in any “leading” country and in this instance I think whether you agree or not many would see the UK as complicit in this one in the same way as they were in the gulf war. Less directly complicit but complicit nonetheless

If you don’t think they are then I can understand wondering why it’s brought up so much, but conversely hopefully it makes sense why many think they are and want to see politicians address and prioritize it

Any MP in parliament who are there to highlight and use their position to protest about the Gaza genocide is worth 50 of the freeloading corporate whores who stink up that place. They have more legitimacy to represent people than the swathes of blue and red rosette Tories, that's for sure.

 

[catcherintherye]

Why that particular one? I do some volunteering with a few refugee charities, and one guy I've been supporting is from Afghanistan, which is a place that doesn't get a single mention any more. Another is from South Sudan, which the last time I looked, is also engaged in war at the moment, with no doubt many children being killed. Heck, if we're talking about a "coalition of the left", then maybe climate change would be a bigger deal than Palestine, but that doesn't seem to be the rallying point, despite it nominally being what the Green party is all about.

Good for you, we need more people doing that.

I think partly pragmatically, the Palestinian genocide is a bigger vote winner for the left. Look it might sound grubby, but we are in the game of persuasion.

What I'd also say, is I'm not sure the British state is as actively and directly involved in supporting the regime undertaking the genocide in those country's. I'm not sure we have a PM who has said the regime partaking in Genocide "has the right" to commit War Crimes. Or sends substantial arms to those regimes.

So it's a unique issue. It is also likely to escalate beyond those disputes and have far wider implications, not just for deaths but also for the price of oil, cost of living etc.

I agree climate change is also a very important issue, and did note that as one of the 3 key prongs for a left alternative to unite under.

The Genocide in Palestine is doing very little to solve that, so they are connected too.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Good for you, we need more people doing that.

I think partly pragmatically, the Palestinian genocide is a bigger vote winner for the left. Look it might sound grubby, but we are in the game of persuasion.

What I'd also say, is I'm not sure the British state is as actively and directly involved in supporting the regime undertaking the genocide in those country's. I'm not sure we have a PM who has said the regime partaking in Genocide "has the right" to commit War Crimes. Or sends substantial arms to those regimes.

So it's a unique issue. It is also likely to escalate beyond those disputes and have far wider implications, not just for deaths but also for the price of oil, cost of living etc.

I agree climate change is also a very important issue, and did note that as one of the 3 key prongs for a left alternative to unite under.

The Genocide in Palestine is doing very little to solve that, so they are connected too.

I didn't mention it to score points or anything, merely to reflect that we have young people from all sorts of places around the world, all of whom are here because home is in a bad way. Indeed, in echoes of Loach's Old Oak, one might argue that an issue worth focusing on that drove many of the appalling scenes towards migrant communities this year would be the lack of resources and opportunities in those communities. People are blaming the newcomers, but it's obviously not their fault at all. That would seem a more humane rallying point, especially as it's something those in power could do something about.

If the aim is to win back votes, then attracting those who might be swayed by the venom of Reform would be a good place to start.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

“The definition of genius is taking the complex and making it simple.”​

All a side has to do is start making things better. If the energy issue was priority and they started to make a dent in that nationally it could be the banner they use to get people on board to then alter the water companies and railways.
Also, some vision on HS2. Anything reform/anderson/tory-scum seem united upon needs scrutiny and then more scrutiny.

Yes, the messaging, vision and approach is thoroughly miserable so far under Labour.

Really are opening up the space for people to start being increasingly susceptible to right wing anti-immingration types messaging about things being "taken" from the average brit and "freeloaders" getting given 4* hotel stays with gold plated toilets.

It's simplistic, crude, and offensive yet it's garnering support amongst those who feel they're losing out.

I.e. you're doing it wrong Labour.

 

[bicycleheader]

I've no issue with British politicians having an interest in foreign affairs, not at all. I'm just curious why this particular "foreign affair" should be the number 1 issue for any Labour politician to be concerned with, and more so than any domestic issue, let alone any of the numerous other overseas issues one could be concerned with.

Dunno, because many see it as the most horrific and the one they are most clearly complicit in?

There’s others like, of course but possibly your general question is more as to why that conflict is more “important” to so many people on a global level, and that’s maybe more a question for that thread

 

[Rita_Poon]

Weight loss jabs for unemployed not dystopian, says Wes Streeting

The government is looking into whether weight-loss drugs can help get more people back to work.

www.bbc.co.uk

Have they got boris in the background calling the shots? They're joining quite a few decisions up in terms of badly thought through and presented.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Dunno, because many see it as the most horrific and the one they are most clearly complicit in?

There’s others like, of course but possibly your general question is more as to why that conflict is more “important” to so many people on a global level, and that’s maybe more a question for that thread

How is the UK complicit in the conflict?

 

[bicycleheader]

How is the UK complicit in the conflict?

I’m pretty sure you know the answer to this, even if you might disagree with it, but there’s a whole other thread on it

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I’m pretty sure you know the answer to this, even if you might disagree with it, but there’s a whole other thread on it

It was a genuine question. I haven't followed things.

 

[davek]

How is the UK complicit in the conflict?

The absolute chutzpah of this.

 

[bicycleheader]

It was a genuine question. I haven't followed things.

Put simply supply arms to a regime committing genocide and follow it up by doing nothing to stop the slaughter. It’s an issue in more than the UK but the majority of the political class and the media in the UK it seems to me would prefer they didn’t have to think about it at all as it’s hard to keep saying “right to defend” and appear human as the children continue to die

That won’t be everybody’s take but to bring it back to the original point, if you believe that and are disgusted by it then you’d hope to have politicians who will openly call it out and push for it to end and for me would see that as a major priority (even if it unfortunately seems wishful thinking )

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Put simply supply arms to a regime committing genocide and follow it up by doing nothing to stop the slaughter. It’s an issue in more than the UK but the majority of the political class and the media in the UK it seems to me would prefer they didn’t have to think about it at all as it’s hard to keep saying “right to defend” and appear human as the children continue to die

That won’t be everybody’s take but to bring it back to the original point, if you believe that and are disgusted by it then you’d hope to have politicians who will openly call it out and push for it to end and for me would see that as a major priority (even if it unfortunately seems wishful thinking )

I'm not attempting a gotcha or anything, but hasn't the government stopped arms exports to Israel?

UK suspends around 30 arms export licences to Israel for use in Gaza over International Humanitarian Law concerns

The government has taken the decision that the UK will suspend arms export licences to Israel for use in military operations in Gaza, following a review of Israel’s compliance with international humanitarian law.

www.gov.uk

 

[Ming the Merciful]

Fewer women are to be sent to prison under new sentencing guidelines according to The Guardian (apologies unable to link).

Surely the very definition of a gender biased policy if so.

Disgraceful if so. Do the crime, do the time. Men are already unfairly discriminated against with regards to sentencing.

Whether or not sentencing works is not on the issue, the punishment should be equal no matter the sex of the convicted

 

[Harryflashman]

I'm not attempting a gotcha or anything, but hasn't the government stopped arms exports to Israel?

UK suspends around 30 arms export licences to Israel for use in Gaza over International Humanitarian Law concerns

The government has taken the decision that the UK will suspend arms export licences to Israel for use in military operations in Gaza, following a review of Israel’s compliance with international humanitarian law.

www.gov.uk

doesn’t that translate to About 9% of total arms exports there

 

[Bruce Wayne]

doesn’t that translate to About 9% of total arms exports there

You mean 9% of UK exports or total?