Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Yarrgh]

As much as I wanted them in and a chance to govern, they can’t just get away with “not being the Tory’s” forever.

They won’t be anywhere near as corrupt ad the Tory’s were which is a decent starting point

The state the uk is in and the attitude of the British public means that if they screw up, we will possibly see more of a shift towards Farage and co which is absolutely abhorrent.

We need to see some good news and positive policies sooner rather than later. The honeymoon period is and should be very short. They knew they were going to be in power, so should have had plans in place to govern competently from day 1.

Could be used for any new Everton owner.

I do agree though. Not being as bad as the last lot is a good start but it's not a particularly high threshold to surpass.

 

[Yarrgh]

I don't reckon they expected the scorched earth policy of the previous twits* to have been quite so total. When they'd all given up the ghost, it was a matter of maiming the country further to ensure as many pished off parts of society as possible. And then a load of riots happened.

This is true. I honestly don't know how much grace they get because of it though. I fear we have the equivalent of a Sean Dyche government at the present. It's better than fsw and Lampard era but bloody hell should we expect better.

 

[Rita_Poon]

This is true. I honestly don't know how much grace they get because of it though. I fear we have the equivalent of a Sean Dyche government at the present. It's better than fsw and Lampard era but bloody hell should we expect better.

There was always going to be pain, once the gravy train the vipers were on was halted, they've utilised every lever they can to harm others and point the blame at the new government. 'two tier kier' don't you know.
I've said for a bit, wait for the budget, they'll earn ire there I'm sure. But we all have to dig in to undo the harm the tories have inflicted. It's the not forgetting who is responsible that is key. So many people just don't care, they'll moan things aren't right but never follow up with the responsibility and accountability for the crimes commit. Enablement.

Why not take the pish? it'll be forgotten in a few months, then back on the bandwagon demanding the change that got us all in the spit* in the first place.

"But but but, the bbc though, and huw edwards, and phil schofield though... but but but"

Shambles.

 

[davek]

As much as I wanted them in and a chance to govern, they can’t just get away with “not being the Tory’s” forever.

They won’t be anywhere near as corrupt ad the Tory’s were which is a decent starting point

The state the uk is in and the attitude of the British public means that if they screw up, we will possibly see more of a shift towards Farage and co which is absolutely abhorrent.

We need to see some good news and positive policies sooner rather than later. The honeymoon period is and should be very short. They knew they were going to be in power, so should have had plans in place to govern competently from day 1.

There needs to be any alternative to them on the left, that's the only way forward. That left/cente-left has been vacated and as the saying goes: nature abhors a vacuum.

t

 

[catcherintherye]

There needs to be any alternative to them on the left, that's the only way forward. That left/cente-left has been vacated and as the saying goes: nature abhors a vacuum.

t

The Corbyn/independent Pro Palestine MPs probably need to come to some agreement with the Greens, and a pact of none aggression signed.

If unity could be found on Anti-war, anti-climate change with even a moderately redistributive agenda, it would prove very popular and could easily take 50+ seats.

I saw a poll recently that of Labour voters, only like 8% viewed Reform positively, and about 3% for Tories. For the Greens it was over 40%. It's easy to see where the anger should break.

The lazy assumption it goes to Reform/Tories is just that, in spite of the media assumption. I suspect they just trade support between themselves.

 

[davek]

The Corbyn/independent Pro Palestine MPs probably need to come to some agreement with the Greens, and a pact of none aggression signed.

If unity could be found on Anti-war, anti-climate change with even a moderately redistributive agenda, it would prove very popular and could easily take 50+ seats.

I saw a poll recently that of Labour voters, only like 8% viewed Reform positively, and about 3% for Tories. For the Greens it was over 40%. It's easy to see where the anger should break.

The lazy assumption it goes to Reform/Tories is just that, in spite of the media assumption. I suspect they just trade support between themselves.

Yes, there's something there to work with. Especially so if - as I suspect - the direction of travel of the Starmer Gang forces the couple of score of decent MPs on the government benches who just wont tolerate MKII Thatcherism from their own party into resigning or being expelled for speaking out and then going Corbyn and Abbott and people like Andy McDonald who's been suspended too. That's where I'd see progress coming from - that meeting of minds plus the Greens.

The anti-war faction in parliament - Ilm not sure their very conservative social views on matters of gender and religion might be a deal breaker with left/leftish MPs.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

They've done a job on this, Starmer's Tories: from a position they had a couple of years ago where they were promising to wind-up Universal Credit they're now doubling down on it and handing the DWP new powers to cut their departmental budget...and stuff like 'slimming-jabs' are right out of the Thatcherite playbook where the victims are forced to carry the can for their own misfortune.

This is a hideous spectacle. As a former Labour Party member I look on with shame and horror at what's being perpetrated by that party now: material self-interest by its MPs and Cabinet claiming free gifts and hospitality when they are, in any normal citizen's terms, fabulously well off already; hammering pensioners sending millions more into fuel poverty; attacking low income families with a failure to lift the threshold on family tax credit; chasing sick people off benefits they are fully entitled to; refusing to apologise for the historic crime against humanity called slavery; backing 'the right' for Israel to prevent food and fuel into Gaza and dragging its feet on a ceasefire as an act of clear genocide takes place. And it'll get worse as the next 4.5 years develops.

The obsession with productivity of individuals is bordering and leaving the realms of humain society. If job coach on mental health ward is pursued and implemented it's just inhumane in my opinion.

That is a very severe example, it would be very easy for someone to try to conflate that 'abuse trauma' with the 40%(or whatever it is) of the adult population currently significantly overweight.
Obesity is multi faceted, cheap supermarket deals promoted, formerly sugary drinks pushed at kids, 4000 calorie mocca choca super coffee's the fashionable in to work livener, being bothered to cook and relying on take aways, selling off school fields, a media obsessed beyond parody of pushing the story every street corner is manned 24 hours a day by multiple sex offenders, closing public swimming pools, the new golden age of tv and all the varying streaming services, lives lived online, and every line of support cut and cut again.

There's been deliberate connection between Obesity and Mental health by Streeting and Labour Government and left at " jabs to get fatties in work" Unfortunately this has now been echoed here and will just reenforce often trotted out troupes about Mental Health, if only they ate appropriately if only they exercised, if only they worked, if only the people who parroted this just shut up. However, appreciate the attempt in diverting and don't disagree with other measures generally.

 

[davek]

The obsession with productivity of individuals is bordering and leaving the realms of humain society. If job coach on mental health ward is pursued and implemented it's just inhumane in my opinion.

It wont be. Just like anti-obesity jabs wont happen.

They are both being trailed by Red Tory ministers in order to frame the upcoming budget cuts to welfare.

It's obvious politicking by a scab government.

No wonder Starmer a year ago praised Thatcher.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Starmer should be screaming loud very loud about this!

Staggering cost of UK’s Brexit divorce revealed – and there’s billions more to pay EU

Exclusive: Starmer urged to reverse the damage done by Brexit by pursuing closer ties with Europe after vast costs of leaving bloc revealed

www.independent.co.uk

 

[catcherintherye]

Yes, there's something there to work with. Especially so if - as I suspect - the direction of travel of the Starmer Gang forces the couple of score of decent MPs on the government benches who just wont tolerate MKII Thatcherism from their own party into resigning or being expelled for speaking out and then going Corbyn and Abbott and people like Andy McDonald who's been suspended too. That's where I'd see progress coming from - that meeting of minds plus the Greens.

The anti-war faction in parliament - Ilm not sure their very conservative social views on matters of gender and religion might be a deal breaker with left/leftish MPs.

I think the left has to get better at coming to agreements. Like we don't all have to agree 100% on everything to be an effective force.

 

[davek]

I think the left has to get better at coming to agreements. Like we don't all have to agree 100% on everything to be an effective force.

I wouldn't call the MPs who opposed Starmer's lot and won as being on the left. They are pro-Palestinian. That's ok, but that doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with left politics.

 

[catcherintherye]

I wouldn't call the MPs who opposed Starmer's lot and won as being on the left. They are pro-Palestinian. That's ok, but that doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with left politics.

I think we have to look at things broadly Dave.

People don't fit into nice boxes. The key question of the day, much like the Apartheid question in the 80s is around opposing the genocide in Palestine. They are on the left, or progressive wong on that (call it what you will).

A socialists challenge is to link struggles, and yes certainly challenge some social attitudes of those involved.

But look, if you are demonstrably clear on the key issue of the day that you are critical of the right wing consensus, you are left.

 

[StDomingosGringo]

Peace breaks out in the Labour thread as Dave unites all lefties.

 

[davek]

I think we have to look at things broadly Dave.

People don't fit into nice boxes. The key question of the day, much like the Apartheid question in the 80s is around opposing the genocide in Palestine. They are on the left, or progressive wong on that (call it what you will).

A socialists challenge is to link struggles, and yes certainly challenge some social attitudes of those involved.

But look, if you are demonstrably clear on the key issue of the day that you are critical of the right wing consensus, you are left.

But that's nothing much to build on as a political party. As a campaign it's unifying. However the social conservatism of a lot of those MPs can be diametrically opposed to socialism. The Greens can be worked with on a number of issues, on the other hand. I could see a progressive bloc built on a red-green alliance of MPs. If we had PP that'd be a pretty sure fire reality.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

The Corbyn/independent Pro Palestine MPs probably need to come to some agreement with the Greens, and a pact of none aggression signed.

If unity could be found on Anti-war, anti-climate change with even a moderately redistributive agenda, it would prove very popular and could easily take 50+ seats.

I saw a poll recently that of Labour voters, only like 8% viewed Reform positively, and about 3% for Tories. For the Greens it was over 40%. It's easy to see where the anger should break.

The lazy assumption it goes to Reform/Tories is just that, in spite of the media assumption. I suspect they just trade support between themselves.

I'd be more inclined to see significant Tory support shifting to Reform being the problem.

Or vice versa.

Labour don't just need to retain Labour voters, they arguably need to sway others. Or hope the other two remain incoherent enough to not gain a critical mass.

That doesn't get away from the problem that Labour are getting dragged rightwards. I don't see that changing.

Maybe more mass for the Greens would necessitate a coalition, but that's dependent on seats being won. Mass shifting of current Labour voters to the Greens potentially let's Reform or the Tories back in. Assuming voting patterns reflect the last election.

The country is in a strange place and progressive politics/the left are going to have to think hard about how to make a dent in the current landscape and system.