Current Affairs The Labour Party

[catcherintherye]

But that's nothing much to build on as a political party. As a campaign it's unifying. However the social conservatism of a lot of those MPs can be diametrically opposed to socialism. The Greens can be worked with on a number of issues, on the other hand. I could see a progressive bloc built on a red-green alliance of MPs. If we had PP that'd be a pretty sure fire reality.

Yes true. It's why I think loose cooperation, and a small core program is probably easiest.

First and foremost, I do think we have to unite people who opposed Israel's genocide in Gaza don't we? That's a critical part of any formation.

What I don't think will work, is coming up with a very detailed program, which will cause division.

I'll ask you this, would you want a pro Palestinian MP to oust Jess Philipps next time? Would that not be a victory for the left mate?

 

[davek]

Yes true. It's why I think loose cooperation, and a small core program is probably easiest.

First and foremost, I do think we have to unite people who opposed Israel's genocide in Gaza don't we? That's a critical part of any formation.

What I don't think will work, is coming up with a very detailed program, which will cause division.

I'll ask you this, would you want a pro Palestinian MP to oust Jess Philipps next time? Would that not be a victory for the left mate?

Of course I would.

And loose co-operation with other MPs on certain issues is fine. But a political party has to be built on with core values. I know they have be broad churches, but I think that era is over. The splintering of left and right within the Tory and Labour parties underlines that.

 

[catcherintherye]

Of course I would.

And loose co-operation with other MPs on certain issues is fine. But a political party has to be built on with core values. I know they have be broad churches, but I think that era is over. The splintering of left and right within the Tory and Labour parties underlines that.

I suppose we are debating on stages.

I don't think we can get the unity of a full party until we can first get some tactical unity.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful mate, but I've been doing a fair bit of work at a local Mosque around the issue of Palestine, but also anti-fascism, and they are a long way from wanting to move to a party with a full program on social attitudes.

Lots of the pro Palestine movement just won't get involved in such a project. Politics is tough.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yes true. It's why I think loose cooperation, and a small core program is probably easiest.

First and foremost, I do think we have to unite people who opposed Israel's genocide in Gaza don't we? That's a critical part of any formation.

What I don't think will work, is coming up with a very detailed program, which will cause division.

I'll ask you this, would you want a pro Palestinian MP to oust Jess Philipps next time? Would that not be a victory for the left mate?

Why is support for Palestine a key issue for a British politician again?

 

[bicycleheader]

Why is support for Palestine a key issue for a British politician again?

I’ve seen you make this comment a few times and I don’t know that anybody’s ever really replied

For me it’s normal to have major crises/conflict in other countries at least high up the agenda in any “leading” country and in this instance I think whether you agree or not many would see the UK as complicit in this one in the same way as they were in the gulf war. Less directly complicit but complicit nonetheless

If you don’t think they are then I can understand wondering why it’s brought up so much, but conversely hopefully it makes sense why many think they are and want to see politicians address and prioritize it

 

[Rita_Poon]

The country is in a strange place and progressive politics/the left are going to have to think hard about how to make a dent in the current landscape and system.

“The definition of genius is taking the complex and making it simple.”​

All a side has to do is start making things better. If the energy issue was priority and they started to make a dent in that nationally it could be the banner they use to get people on board to then alter the water companies and railways.
Also, some vision on HS2. Anything reform/anderson/tory-scum seem united upon needs scrutiny and then more scrutiny.

 

[Rita_Poon]

I’ve seen you make this comment a few times and I don’t know that anybody’s ever really replied

For me it’s normal to have major crises/conflict in other countries at least high up the agenda in any “leading” country and in this instance I think whether you agree or not many would see the UK as complicit in this one in the same way as they were in the gulf war. Less directly complicit but complicit nonetheless

If you don’t think they are then I can understand wondering why it’s brought up so much, but conversely hopefully it makes sense why many think they are and want to see politicians address and prioritize it

As an aside, the saudi's are utilizing raf planes and crew to drop bombs on Yemen. But there's less cameras and american intervention there so it seems a little more distant. Still over 20k killed or wounded.

 

[catcherintherye]

Why is support for Palestine a key issue for a British politician again?

I'm not sure I've said it's a key issue for a politician per se mate.

I was discussing with Dave a formulation of a grouping that would be to the left of Labour. It would be hard to avoid the conclusion, that the question of Palestine/war would not be an important component for that?

But look, the impact of what's happening in Palestine/Lebanon is also a very important issue of our time isn't it? Id say tens of thousands of murdered children makes it a very important issue, and this will be esp finally so if Britain has colluded with a state that has broken international law.

For any right minded politician, this would be quite a serious concern.

 

[davek]

I suppose we are debating on stages.

I don't think we can get the unity of a full party until we can first get some tactical unity.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful mate, but I've been doing a fair bit of work at a local Mosque around the issue of Palestine, but also anti-fascism, and they are a long way from wanting to move to a party with a full program on social attitudes.

Lots of the pro Palestine movement just won't get involved in such a project. Politics is tough.

Exactly what Ive been saying. So any group of MPs representing such a constituency aren't fertile territory for merger with; alliances on votes in parliament, yes.

 

[catcherintherye]

Exactly what Ive been saying. So any group of MPs representing such a constituency aren't fertile territory for merger with; alliances on votes in parliament, yes.

A pact of unity between Greens, Corbyn type independents and left Labour MPs would be a good start.

 

[davek]

I’ve seen you make this comment a few times and I don’t know that anybody’s ever really replied

For me it’s normal to have major crises/conflict in other countries at least high up the agenda in any “leading” country and in this instance I think whether you agree or not many would see the UK as complicit in this one in the same way as they were in the gulf war. Less directly complicit but complicit nonetheless

If you don’t think they are then I can understand wondering why it’s brought up so much, but conversely hopefully it makes sense why many think they are and want to see politicians address and prioritize it

 

[davek]

A pact of unity between Greens, Corbyn type independents and left Labour MPs would be a good start.

Yes, defo mate.

No arguments here.

I dont wish to impugn the group of Muslim MPs voted into parliament on the Palestinian issue - good luck to them, I'm delighted they beat the warmongering candidate they faced. The more we have of them the better even if its only on the basis of opposing the huge number of MPs who are part of Friends of Israel / pro-Zionist groups that proliferate in parliament these days. But I dont automatically align with them on lots of issues.

A red-green pact, or hopefully party, could really make inroads in elections if it were formed, just as it did for a long period in Scotland with a socially progressive SNP and Green pact.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I’ve seen you make this comment a few times and I don’t know that anybody’s ever really replied

For me it’s normal to have major crises/conflict in other countries at least high up the agenda in any “leading” country and in this instance I think whether you agree or not many would see the UK as complicit in this one in the same way as they were in the gulf war. Less directly complicit but complicit nonetheless

If you don’t think they are then I can understand wondering why it’s brought up so much, but conversely hopefully it makes sense why many think they are and want to see politicians address and prioritize it

I've no issue with British politicians having an interest in foreign affairs, not at all. I'm just curious why this particular "foreign affair" should be the number 1 issue for any Labour politician to be concerned with, and more so than any domestic issue, let alone any of the numerous other overseas issues one could be concerned with.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'm not sure I've said it's a key issue for a politician per se mate.

I was discussing with Dave a formulation of a grouping that would be to the left of Labour. It would be hard to avoid the conclusion, that the question of Palestine/war would not be an important component for that?

But look, the impact of what's happening in Palestine/Lebanon is also a very important issue of our time isn't it? Id say tens of thousands of murdered children makes it a very important issue, and this will be esp finally so if Britain has colluded with a state that has broken international law.

For any right minded politician, this would be quite a serious concern.

Why that particular one? I do some volunteering with a few refugee charities, and one guy I've been supporting is from Afghanistan, which is a place that doesn't get a single mention any more. Another is from South Sudan, which the last time I looked, is also engaged in war at the moment, with no doubt many children being killed. Heck, if we're talking about a "coalition of the left", then maybe climate change would be a bigger deal than Palestine, but that doesn't seem to be the rallying point, despite it nominally being what the Green party is all about.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

As an aside, the saudi's are utilizing raf planes and crew to drop bombs on Yemen. But there's less cameras and american intervention there so it seems a little more distant. Still over 20k killed or wounded.

Is that the former British protectorate Yeman? Funny how some issues barely merit a mention isn't it?