Current Affairs The Labour Party

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Spadge Vernacular said:
You picked one point as if the other few issues noted didn't exist! This is choosing to ignore the obvious.

Corbyn is a politician, he got beat, get over it.

Hopefully Starmer can get the tory's out but if not then we have to find a new way, probably a new leader.
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As usual, it was you and others who brought up Corbyn initially, so maybe you're the one who needs to get over it?

They had a huge majority in 2001, which was wiped out by 2008.

Miliband lost to austerity and gave the tories their first majority for a decade. Corbyn clawed the gap back but got smashed in 2019.

It's been a terrible 20 years for the labour party. Four leaders in that time who all contributed to its downfall in some way.
 
peteblue said:
Corbyn was never my cup of tea, but tbf he engaged with people and had wide support. He just had the wrong and wrong headed policies. A simple example was his stance on our nuclear deterrent Trident where he said we should still build them, at great cost, in order to preserve jobs but to not put any nuclear missiles on board. This would of course immediately negate having them built in the first place. Had he said he would scrap the whole programme and spend the money on other employment, I would still have disagreed with him but at least have understood the logic. It was muddle headed to say the least…..
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I don't want to go on about Corbyn as he's pretty much irrelevant now, but one of his main weaknesses is that he simply isn't a leader in any accepted sense of the word. Another is his seeming inability to engage with people who don't share his views, or at least sympathise with them.
 
Charro said:
As usual, it was you and others who brought up Corbyn initially, so maybe you're the one who needs to get over it?

They had a huge majority in 2001, which was wiped out by 2008.

Miliband lost to austerity and gave the tories their first majority for a decade. Corbyn clawed the gap back but got smashed in 2019.

It's been a terrible 20 years for the labour party. Four leaders in that time who all contributed to its downfall in some way.
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@Eggs mentioned him early this morning, then @tsubaki jumped in to defend, as his followers always do, so nope.

And yes, it has been a disastrous period for Labour and the UK, and I agree non of the leaders have had the answer during this period. Hopefully Starmer will now though, but as many have suggested, it could be a lot closer than the polls suggest.
 
Spadge Vernacular said:
You can do what you want mate, it is clear that you won't accept his defeat, his failings or move on.
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Well I don’t know how on earth you’ve come up with that viewpoint.

Saying Corbyn was trashed by the press and a political system largely fearful of what he represented (ie: genuine change) is clearly not refusing to accept his defeat or ignoring his failings. Both of those things are so obvious they shouldn’t need to be said.

I just wish people would realise they have been and are being lied to.
 
tsubaki said:
Which sort of begs the question why was he seen as so divisive by the public? He was offering mild socialism and his policies (when presented by themselves) were not divisive ones.
As a politician he didn’t cane his expenses, didn’t seek to monetise his position via second or third jobs, lived modestly, had a long record of genuinely helping people, spoke his mind irrespective of the consequences, was proved correct more than once and his interests were all relatively familiar ones. If you were to list the common things most people say that they hate about politicians you’d not find many of them in him.

Of course there were a group of people in politics and the media for whom he, or more correctly what he represented, really was a threat and so it was necessary to destroy him.
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I don’t really buy the conclusion to be fair. There was obviously people in his party working against him, and unfair media criticism. Welcome to politics, he certainly wasnt the first and won’t be the last to have that complaint.

But for me ultimately he lost because he wasn't a strong enough leader to handle those problems, didn’t always present himself well in the debates, was made to look foolish in a number of interviews.

I voted for his manifesto and his leadership twice, but the electorate said no thanks, whatever the reason behind their opposition, which is debatable.
 
tsubaki said:
Well I don’t know how on earth you’ve come up with that viewpoint.

Saying Corbyn was trashed by the press and a political system largely fearful of what he represented (ie: genuine change) is clearly not refusing to accept his defeat or ignoring his failings. Both of those things are so obvious they shouldn’t need to be said.

I just wish people would realise they have been and are being lied to.
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No, I listed just a few of the things that people had issues with and take one and dismiss the rest.

It is OK though, as much as I wish his fans would accept that the avaerage man on the street had issues with him it won't happen, you and a few others on here being a prime example.
 
Amw79 said:
I don’t really buy the conclusion to be fair. There was obviously people in his party working against him, and unfair media criticism. Welcome to politics, he certainly wasnt the first and won’t be the last to have that complaint.

But for me ultimately he lost because he wasn't a strong enough leader to handle those problems, didn’t always present himself well in the debates, was made to look foolish in a number of interviews.

I voted for his manifesto and his leadership twice, but the electorate said no thanks, whatever the reason behind their opposition, which is debatable.
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I agree entirely about him not being strong enough as a leader - even absolute deviants like Danczuk were never dealt with, never mind the factional enemies. Had he won they (the PLP) would have made it impossible for him to be PM by withholding their confidence.
 
Spadge Vernacular said:
No, I listed just a few of the things that people had issues with and take one and dismiss the rest.

It is OK though, as much as I wish his fans would accept that the avaerage man on the street had issues with him it won't happen, you and a few others on here being a prime example.
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Again, you seem to be under the impression that the average man on the street had entirely organic, self generated issues with him. If people had these - and it’s certainly possible to criticise him for lots of things - then that’s entirely fine.

However the vast majority of people seemed to to list the things they’d been told about him by the papers and the commentariat as what they disliked about him. You’ve cited several things there, all of which were breathless exclusives.

Were those things actually true? Often the answer is “not really”.
 
tsubaki said:
Well I don’t know how on earth you’ve come up with that viewpoint.

Saying Corbyn was trashed by the press and a political system largely fearful of what he represented (ie: genuine change) is clearly not refusing to accept his defeat or ignoring his failings. Both of those things are so obvious they shouldn’t need to be said.

I just wish people would realise they have been and are being lied to.
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Kinda the same narrative Truss continues to wheel out. The glorious future would have been achieved if only the blob hadn't foiled her. The markets were just as hostile to him as they were to Truss.
 
Moomin said:
Went along to my local CLP campaign event earlier. The Tories have gave up campaigning in my seat and focusing all efforts on Stockton West to save Matt Vickers from getting voted out.

The CLP for North Durham are not happy apparently about Luke Akehurst and they are not campaigning for him. Looking to bring people in to back his campaign.
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any chance of laura pidcock standing as an independent there?
 
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