Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Amw79]

It isn’t the same argument.

The claim was that Corbyn was unelectable; clearly given the fact that ten million plus people voted for him, twice, this is nonsense. He was more electable than any Labour leader since Blair.

Think this is a bit semantic. He was electable because he acquired so many votes, but he also inspired more votes to vote against him, which means he was - not elected.

If electable just means ‘getting more votes than previously’ that’s fine. But it misses out the key bit of being divisive to the point that it results in an engaged and motivated opposition.

 

[edge]

Edge the press are far, far more on board with Starmer than they were with Corbyn. Sir Keir writes articles in the S*n ffs.

He isn't my cup of tea really but represents the way to be tory free.
So he is getting my 100% backing I hate the tories with such a passion they are robbing this country blind .

 

[tsubaki]

Think this is a bit semantic. He was electable because he acquired so many votes, but he also inspired more votes to vote against him, which means he was - not elected.

If electable just means ‘getting more votes than previously’ that’s fine. But it misses out the key bit of being divisive to the point that it results in an engaged and motivated opposition.

Which sort of begs the question why was he seen as so divisive by the public? He was offering mild socialism and his policies (when presented by themselves) were not divisive ones.
As a politician he didn’t cane his expenses, didn’t seek to monetise his position via second or third jobs, lived modestly, had a long record of genuinely helping people, spoke his mind irrespective of the consequences, was proved correct more than once and his interests were all relatively familiar ones. If you were to list the common things most people say that they hate about politicians you’d not find many of them in him.

Of course there were a group of people in politics and the media for whom he, or more correctly what he represented, really was a threat and so it was necessary to destroy him.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Corbyn wasn't popular at the doors in Teesside back in 2019. Press did a great job on him and the same with Ed Millaband.

A lot of people just wanted Brexit done and sorted. Also, for some strange reason people fell for the con of Johnson.

I reckon that for your average guy on the street his relationships and poor calls flagged him as suspect - aided by the press. Pictures with Hamas, reaction to the Salisbury poisonings, hiring communists to his leadership team, the old militant crew, his attitude toward the forces and wanting to scrap trident etc. all paint a picture.

These sorts of things obscured the very good stuff he proposed, in my opinion. I suppose ultimately he is possibly naive and better suited to activism, which might explain his initial hesitation at going for the leadership role.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Utter crap. More people voted Labour in 2019 than did in 2015, 2010 and the election they won in 2005. By any definition you want to use, that is not “unelectable”; it was two million more than the 1983 election, perhaps the most infamous time the unelectable argument was spewed forth.

What happened with Corbyn was that the media, on behalf of the people who’ve ruined this country, told people multiple times every day that a relatively mild form of socialism was extremism, madness, probably treasonous, a sign of mental illness or naivety, Stalinism and antisemitic. His actual merits and faults were never seriously engaged with, which of course comes across in your posts on the subject which are invariably missing such points.

Enough people believed it unfortunately , and now here we are watching them believe the latest bit of nonsense that they’ve been told.

He was up against possibly the worst ever British government. Jeez.

 

[Charro]

Which one? He lost against the Maybot and the clown didn't he? This during a period of the worst governance that many of us have or will see.

Also, I seem to remember a trend of "that man" coming back from the doorsteps.

2019, the discussion is quite easy to follow.

I'm not saying Corbyn wasnt an issue, he was one of many reasons labour were smashed to pieces.

Brexit voting, labour supporters. Workington man, this was the demographic the tories targeted and labour had no answer as they still did not know how to navigate the issue of Brexit.

Lisa Nandy called it. If Labour don't campaign to adhere to Brexit they will lose the red wall seats, and she was correct.

Nobody was winning that election for labour.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Utter crap. More people voted Labour in 2019 than did in 2015, 2010 and the election they won in 2005. By any definition you want to use, that is not “unelectable”; it was two million more than the 1983 election, perhaps the most infamous time the unelectable argument was spewed forth.

What happened with Corbyn was that the media, on behalf of the people who’ve ruined this country, told people multiple times every day that a relatively mild form of socialism was extremism, madness, probably treasonous, a sign of mental illness or naivety, Stalinism and antisemitic. His actual merits and faults were never seriously engaged with, which of course comes across in your posts on the subject which are invariably missing such points.

Enough people believed it unfortunately , and now here we are watching them believe the latest bit of nonsense that they’ve been told.

This feels a lot like Liverpool talking about record points totals while finishing second.

 

[tsubaki]

I reckon that for your average guy on the street his relationships and poor calls flagged him as suspect - aided by the press. Pictures with Hamas, reaction to the Salisbury poisonings, hiring communists to his leadership team, the old militant crew, his attitude toward the forces and wanting to scrap trident etc. all paint a picture.

This is what I meant by swallowing recycled crap by the way. Johnson appointed and ennobled many more communists than Corbyn did. There were more ex-communists in the Blair cabinet than there was around Corbyn, too.

 

[Charro]

Yeah, it was funny.

Whilst you had Corbyn being made out to be the second coming of Lenin, you had Boris Johnson and the tory party as a whole awash with ex KGB cash.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Which sort of begs the question why was he seen as so divisive by the public? He was offering mild socialism and his policies (when presented by themselves) were not divisive ones.
As a politician he didn’t cane his expenses, didn’t seek to monetise his position via second or third jobs, lived modestly, had a long record of genuinely helping people, spoke his mind irrespective of the consequences, was proved correct more than once and his interests were all relatively familiar ones. If you were to list the common things most people say that they hate about politicians you’d not find many of them in him.

Of course there were a group of people in politics and the media for whom he, or more correctly what he represented, really was a threat and so it was necessary to destroy him.

BUT HE’S A COMMIE WHO WOULDN'T DROP A NUKE AND WOULD PUT UP TAXES AND DOESNT SEEM HATE FILLED TO MINORITIES.

Grrr

 

[tsubaki]

2019, the discussion is quite easy to follow.

I'm not saying Corbyn wasnt an issue, he was one of many reasons labour were smashed to pieces.

Brexit voting, labour supporters. Workington man, this was the demographic the tories targeted and labour had no answer as they still did not know how to navigate the issue of Brexit.

Lisa Nandy called it. If Labour don't campaign to adhere to Brexit they will lose the red wall seats, and she was correct.

Nobody was winning that election for labour.

I disagree, I think it was winnable but it needed Labour to have done much more to recognise it.

As you say it was fought on largely nativist themes, and so what they should have done is piled in behind that - slating the Tories record on defence in terms of cuts, closures and destruction of capabilities (this is still an open goal for whoever wants to notice), pointing out what Brexit would and would not have fixed, pointing out what Labour would do to revitalise these areas whilst reminding them that the Tories would rob the cash (which they of course did). Pointing out that Corbyn’s personal position on Brexit was one that a lot of Brexiteers shared would have helped too.

Most importantly though they should have teed off on the press, continually reminding people whose interests they serve and that they were not honest, something that repeated polling (in terms of confidence in) shows us people believe anyway.

 

[mahermi1]

I disagree, I think it was winnable but it needed Labour to have done much more to recognise it.

As you say it was fought on largely nativist themes, and so what they should have done is piled in behind that - slating the Tories record on defence in terms of cuts, closures and destruction of capabilities (this is still an open goal for whoever wants to notice), pointing out what Brexit would and would not have fixed, pointing out what Labour would do to revitalise these areas whilst reminding them that the Tories would rob the cash (which they of course did). Pointing out that Corbyn’s personal position on Brexit was one that a lot of Brexiteers shared would have helped too.

Most importantly though they should have teed off on the press, continually reminding people whose interests they serve and that they were not honest, something that repeated polling (in terms of confidence in) shows us people believe anyway.

Correct the press was a biggie against Labour, but it always was Murdoch industries alone saw to that as far as I can remember. Even now the press have got the Abbot bone to chew on and even on the day of another tory detection, so close to election day it's unheard of, still the papers showed the Diane Abbott story far bigger, something that has not even happened as yet..

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

This is what I meant by swallowing recycled crap by the way. Johnson appointed and ennobled many more communists than Corbyn did. There were more ex-communists in the Blair cabinet than there was around Corbyn, too.

You picked one point as if the other few issues noted didn't exist! This is choosing to ignore the obvious.

Corbyn is a politician, he got beat, get over it.

Hopefully Starmer can get the tory's out but if not then we have to find a new way, probably a new leader.

 

[peteblue]

Which sort of begs the question why was he seen as so divisive by the public? He was offering mild socialism and his policies (when presented by themselves) were not divisive ones.
As a politician he didn’t cane his expenses, didn’t seek to monetise his position via second or third jobs, lived modestly, had a long record of genuinely helping people, spoke his mind irrespective of the consequences, was proved correct more than once and his interests were all relatively familiar ones. If you were to list the common things most people say that they hate about politicians you’d not find many of them in him.

Of course there were a group of people in politics and the media for whom he, or more correctly what he represented, really was a threat and so it was necessary to destroy him.

Corbyn was never my cup of tea, but tbf he engaged with people and had wide support. He just had the wrong and wrong headed policies. A simple example was his stance on our nuclear deterrent Trident where he said we should still build them, at great cost, in order to preserve jobs but to not put any nuclear missiles on board. This would of course immediately negate having them built in the first place. Had he said he would scrap the whole programme and spend the money on other employment, I would still have disagreed with him but at least have understood the logic. It was muddle headed to say the least…..

 

[tsubaki]

You picked one point as if the other few issues noted didn't exist! This is choosing to ignore the obvious.

Corbyn is a politician, he got beat, get over it.

Hopefully Starmer can get the tory's out but if not then we have to find a new way, probably a new leader.

If you’d like, I can run through the others too.