Current Affairs The Labour Party

Status
Not open for further replies.
Because by virtue of them requiring a certain level of income before that debt has to be repaid renders them no longer disadvantaged. I guarantee, had it been called a graduate tax or something instead, there would have been no such fuss.

I do find it amusing that as a teacher I will probably never earn enough to repay my student loan. I find it less amusing that the whole course somehow managed to cost so much when it was pretty much teach yourself to teach.

Young people are being taken for a complete ride right now.
 
I do find it amusing that as a teacher I will probably never earn enough to repay my student loan. I find it less amusing that the whole course somehow managed to cost so much when it was pretty much teach yourself to teach.

Young people are being taken for a complete ride right now.

Indeed. I was reading an article about how few hours of teaching that graduates actually receive per week......the Universities have a lot to answer for on this whole subject. Pushing up fees while overpaying themselves......
 
Indeed. I was reading an article about how few hours of teaching that graduates actually receive per week......the Universities have a lot to answer for on this whole subject. Pushing up fees while overpaying themselves......

It's a robbery really. You've got kids paying £9000 for a course they don't even need and that's before they've taken a loan out for living expenses.

All well and good saying they don't pay it back until they're earning x amount but losing £100 from your wages every month until you die isn't exactly what you need when you have a family to provide for.

Oh well, the gardens and fountains around Hope University look absolutely stunning so I guess that's what counts.
 
I think it depends on what they study. The vocational subjects like nursing probably have a greater retention rate, though thats may be more to do with people having invested more of themselves into it (as in the sense of they have put themselves in debt for a subject that may not be of that much use in other fields).

The comment about "dead mans shoes" is spot on though; for the next ten-fifteen years people like your kids will be competing with people who got their education for free (and who also found it a lot easier to buy a house) and who also have less of an incentive to sod off at 50-55 because their pensions have been cut.
Think the problem is complex , the pensions have been cut the age limit risen , people can work as long as they like, not all of them in fact the majority in that age group did not go into uni so free or not did not have access to it , not many from my age group in Kirkdale did certainly none from my school that i know off.
It was straight onto the work market at 16 for us so that means 51 years of work ahead before you could retire, after UNI these days you will work on average 48 years
Don't forget most of us older ones (I AM 57) have seen interest rates in double figures while buying these houses if you were on even average wages it wasn't easy, and the rental market wasn't much of an option those days.
You will find a lot of older people giving away substantial amounts to there income to children to allow them to keep a home of their own , it's over a third of my income at the moment , i know my sister is doing the same and will be working at least two years longer, to be honest in my case the way the rail industry is going i should be putting it away for my future as a buffer for when i go.
My parents were not in any position to help me at the same stage in my life, which by modern standards up to that point been spent in poverty , living week to week, i had never had a holiday, come home to a house with gas electricity cut off many a time terrible diet ect. we weren't on are own that was life back then, not a bed of roses some seem to think we lived through.
Thankfully my lot have never known that ,never will as long as i am around, in fact they will be quite comfortable when i pop my clogs in reality.
I think the debt the young people get into is daft to saddle them with starting their lives, but unless you have some form of discrimination in subjects ie there is a shortage of a certain type in the country so its free, anything else you pay, there are so many in education these days it would madness to carry on funding it the same as it is now from central government , so its a hard choice.
The answer long term has to be looked at more vocational courses, more social housing , the jobs market looking into, to many unstable jobs on low pay, lack of investment in the UK workforce to get skills through out there lives.
The job blocking isn't easy, possibly do what italy are doing link it to what you have worked after 38 years contributions you get access to a full pension on a percentage of a living wage ?
Unfortunately unless we change the current society in the UK into valuing its people more instead of being a number on the balance sheet we are stuck in the situation we are now.
 
I do find it amusing that as a teacher I will probably never earn enough to repay my student loan. I find it less amusing that the whole course somehow managed to cost so much when it was pretty much teach yourself to teach.

Young people are being taken for a complete ride right now.

I was reading a labour market analysis done by MIT the other day, and whilst it's obviously from the US I suspect it's similar here. Basically said that degree level jobs have risen a lot in the last few decades, as have jobs requiring no training at all, but jobs that don't require a degree but could be done with a bit of training have all but vanished. What's more, whatever wage growth there has been in that time has nearly all gone to degree-level jobs, with wages of unskilled men actually falling during that period.

Contrary to the perception above, it's not a case of vocational jobs requiring a degree now so much as those jobs being either outsourced overseas or automated. What's more, those mid-skilled jobs are increasingly found in rural areas, and those areas suffer from lower wages than their peers in urban areas. We mentioned better transport earlier, and there's a real risk that this would simply exacerbate this trend, as people move to cities for a better life, thus resulting in a brain drain from rural areas. Suffice to say, that would benefit individuals a lot, but it leaves those left behind, literally left behind.
 
I was reading a labour market analysis done by MIT the other day, and whilst it's obviously from the US I suspect it's similar here. Basically said that degree level jobs have risen a lot in the last few decades, as have jobs requiring no training at all, but jobs that don't require a degree but could be done with a bit of training have all but vanished. What's more, whatever wage growth there has been in that time has nearly all gone to degree-level jobs, with wages of unskilled men actually falling during that period.

Contrary to the perception above, it's not a case of vocational jobs requiring a degree now so much as those jobs being either outsourced overseas or automated. What's more, those mid-skilled jobs are increasingly found in rural areas, and those areas suffer from lower wages than their peers in urban areas. We mentioned better transport earlier, and there's a real risk that this would simply exacerbate this trend, as people move to cities for a better life, thus resulting in a brain drain from rural areas. Suffice to say, that would benefit individuals a lot, but it leaves those left behind, literally left behind.

Completely ignoring that this isn't already happening.
 
What isn't?
I assume he means the movement of people to the city.

Which is odd, because the amount of building going on in my rural part of the country is indicative of completely the opposite. Granted I live in a town with direct links to Manchester via train, but the town itself is growing.

Ive actually gone from living in a city to coming back to rural life as I think my quality of life is far better. Lower wages than I’d be on in a city, but my rents considerably less as I’d the council tax. I have a 10 minute drive to work, no crime, no spiced up zombies to avoid on the way to work.

The big city dream is something still being peddled thanks to higher wages, but the trade offs are never really taken into full account.
 
I assume he means the movement of people to the city.

Which is odd, because the amount of building going on in my rural part of the country is indicative of completely the opposite. Granted I live in a town with direct links to Manchester via train, but the town itself is growing.

Ive actually gone from living in a city to coming back to rural life as I think my quality of life is far better. Lower wages than I’d be on in a city, but my rents considerably less as I’d the council tax. I have a 10 minute drive to work, no crime, no spiced up zombies to avoid on the way to work.

The big city dream is something still being peddled thanks to higher wages, but the trade offs are never really taken into full account.

Aye, that's a fair point. Like I say, the stuff I was looking at was from MIT so was US focused. The best I could find here was from the ONS - https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ynamicsofukcityregionssincemid2011/2016-10-11 - which shows that whilst London, Bristol, Manchester, Edinburgh and the West Midlands were growing faster than the UK average, other places (such as Liverpool) were not. The general gist is that scale is what matters (economically), which perhaps explains why London is growing so much faster than everywhere else.
 
Think the problem is complex , the pensions have been cut the age limit risen , people can work as long as they like, not all of them in fact the majority in that age group did not go into uni so free or not did not have access to it , not many from my age group in Kirkdale did certainly none from my school that i know off.
It was straight onto the work market at 16 for us so that means 51 years of work ahead before you could retire, after UNI these days you will work on average 48 years
Don't forget most of us older ones (I AM 57) have seen interest rates in double figures while buying these houses if you were on even average wages it wasn't easy, and the rental market wasn't much of an option those days.
You will find a lot of older people giving away substantial amounts to there income to children to allow them to keep a home of their own , it's over a third of my income at the moment , i know my sister is doing the same and will be working at least two years longer, to be honest in my case the way the rail industry is going i should be putting it away for my future as a buffer for when i go.
My parents were not in any position to help me at the same stage in my life, which by modern standards up to that point been spent in poverty , living week to week, i had never had a holiday, come home to a house with gas electricity cut off many a time terrible diet ect. we weren't on are own that was life back then, not a bed of roses some seem to think we lived through.
Thankfully my lot have never known that ,never will as long as i am around, in fact they will be quite comfortable when i pop my clogs in reality.
I think the debt the young people get into is daft to saddle them with starting their lives, but unless you have some form of discrimination in subjects ie there is a shortage of a certain type in the country so its free, anything else you pay, there are so many in education these days it would madness to carry on funding it the same as it is now from central government , so its a hard choice.
The answer long term has to be looked at more vocational courses, more social housing , the jobs market looking into, to many unstable jobs on low pay, lack of investment in the UK workforce to get skills through out there lives.
The job blocking isn't easy, possibly do what italy are doing link it to what you have worked after 38 years contributions you get access to a full pension on a percentage of a living wage ?
Unfortunately unless we change the current society in the UK into valuing its people more instead of being a number on the balance sheet we are stuck in the situation we are now.

With regard to houses it wasn’t easy then, but it was easier than it is now. I agree with most of the rest of it though.
 
Not cut and dried , the membership might want that but vast swathes of labour voters in the north want to leave, not a hope on hell of labour doing anything without them, Corbyn knows it as well.

It certainly won’t be popular with much of the electorate, but what else can be done? The EU will not re-negotiate in any meaningful sense and a no deal scenario would be so damaging only fantasists support the notion. We’re at a deadlock and another vote is needed.
 
It certainly won’t be popular with much of the electorate, but what else can be done? The EU will not re-negotiate in any meaningful sense and a no deal scenario would be so damaging only fantasists support the notion. We’re at a deadlock and another vote is needed.
What would a second referendum do if leave win back to square one, if remain win the leavers will want another one at some stage and have the added momentum of the result of the first one not getting through.
If one side or the other just said we are staying in, the other we are going out on a GE might break the deadlock.
I haven't a clue mate to be honest.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

🛒 Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top