Current Affairs The Labour Party

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So Corbyn wasn't left enough for you Dave, then why not just move to Russia ? They may be able to fulfil you're requirements. Good luck mate.
You know that Russia and the Soviet Union have different political-economic systems? And you know that I never subscribed to Stalinism in any case? The Soviet Union was a deformed 'workers' state'. What I seek is a social-democratic state. Think of the Scandinavian political-economies of the post war period. Not perfect, but very much progressive and enlightened.

I hope that this is of use to you.
 
To be fair, Dave has a point. Only yesterday I was in the local newsagent to buy the Morning Star and Keir Starmer pops up and says "you're not buying that sonny", before shoving a copy of Atlas Shrugged into my hand. Thankfully he wrapped it in a copy of the rag to hide my blushes.

He'd have shoved a copy of the S*n into your hand...the paper he works for.
 
You know that Russia and the Soviet Union have different political-economic systems? And you know that I never subscribed to Stalinism in any case? The Soviet Union was a deformed 'workers' state'. What I seek is a social-democratic state. Think of the Scandinavian political-economies of the post war period. Not perfect, but very much progressive and enlightened.

I hope that this is of use to you.

Not really go there then Dave, believe the ski-ing is good too. :)
 
Appreciate it's somewhat tongue in cheek, and American, but ignoring the bit at the bottom that's the dumbest "political spectrum" I've ever seen.

Liberal doesn't really belong on the left, and "radical" can apply to any ideology that wants to make rapid change to the status quo.

Imagine thinking anything to the left of liberal is far left. America is just ridiculously right wing.
Tbh, it was a tongue in cheek suplex, as if I am not sure that the old badges really fit nowadays.

The tribes that have formed through the spread of the internet and mass communication/social media technologies. and news reporting kind of make the old norms obsolete.

When you see studies/surveys suggesting a desire for nationalising amenities yet the same group wanting to crack down on immigration and stop the boats. Or right wing areas wanting the HOL to be elected and seeing Labour heartlands siding with Boris/Farage over the EU, I am not sure that the old view of political tribes fits today.

People are more diverse than than right or left, they just previously didn't have the tools to connect, so got hearded in with those around them.
 
Tory megafan Dave still running scared of the question "Why shouldn't Starmer win the next election if the socialists are on the march to power anyway?". This depth of cowardice is just incredible to see, and so strange he can't translate his clear visceral hatred into any sort of reasoning he'd be happy to share in public. Must be a source of deep shame to Dave, his true feelings on this.

Pitiable, really. And weird to think someone so unwilling to engage constructively with a political question thinks anyone should take their posts on the subject seriously!
 
Read somewhere that it's the middle ground you need to win, to win an election, again not having a go here, but there is mainly a middle of the road Labour party voters, who are moderate throughout the Country that can be swayed to vote any way. That's why Johnson got in, he appealed to more moderate Labour and Libdem voters, just look at how many of the red wall voters he took off labour. In my view far left of far right politics can frighten off moderate voters. You can call Starmer/ Blair Tories or anything you like but they are the type of leaders, in my opinion, moderate, that appeal to the majority of voters in an election. I could well be proven wrong, but it's my view for what it's worth.
There's a plain and fundamental issue here, due to who actually controls the narrative. Most would consider Corbyn and his policies as 'far left' because they've been told they are, I consider myself a socialist as a starting point,but pragmatic to existing vircumstances and systems, and I would describe Corbyn/policies as 'slightly' left of center, democratic sovialist using the European model.
The 'far right' only ever get spoken about in terms of absolute raving nutjobs like Brevik, even oor Tommeh gets off lightly in comparison to Corbyn, yet his posturings are a bigger threat to democracy in this country. And he hasn't offered everyone free (costed) wi fi.
It was the media that turned the last election into a 'brexit/immigration' election, ignoring the foodbanks, nurses and nhs situations, and the economy.
As for Starmer and Blair, take them on political points alone, one a genocidal warmonger who lied to use depleted Uranium on civilians, or the second, who supports genocidal maniacs using white phosphorous on children.
The choice you have is not to swallow the chopping and changing legitimacy seeking rhetoric they all spew but to go with ahumanistic approach of who of all would benefit the most people with their policies, but that would be too socialistic for some to consider, lest they became agents of the KGB.
 
There's a plain and fundamental issue here, due to who actually controls the narrative. Most would consider Corbyn and his policies as 'far left' because they've been told they are, I consider myself a socialist as a starting point,but pragmatic to existing vircumstances and systems, and I would describe Corbyn/policies as 'slightly' left of center, democratic sovialist using the European model.
The 'far right' only ever get spoken about in terms of absolute raving nutjobs like Brevik, even oor Tommeh gets off lightly in comparison to Corbyn, yet his posturings are a bigger threat to democracy in this country. And he hasn't offered everyone free (costed) wi fi.
It was the media that turned the last election into a 'brexit/immigration' election, ignoring the foodbanks, nurses and nhs situations, and the economy.
As for Starmer and Blair, take them on political points alone, one a genocidal warmonger who lied to use depleted Uranium on civilians, or the second, who supports genocidal maniacs using white phosphorous on children.
The choice you have is not to swallow the chopping and changing legitimacy seeking rhetoric they all spew but to go with ahumanistic approach of who of all would benefit the most people with their policies, but that would be too socialistic for some to consider, lest they became agents of the KGB.

They are leaders but Not the Labour Party, I can not stress that more, the Labour Party has always been for me, split, simply put, to the left, right and mostly central. I didn't know Starmer was actually running this war in Palestine and supporting the use of white phosphorus on Children, I just thought he was the leader of the opposition. As for Blair he was the Prime Minister at the time of the Iraq war, there is a thought that he was led by the nose by America. Not taking away the blame as it was found later on that the WMD accusation was false. Yes I would say Jeremy Corbyn was left wing, definitely not far left though and I know you're mind is set and you won't agree with a single thing I've said. Been in trades Union all my life, never once crossed a picket line and never will. In my younger days always been Labour as has all my immediate family, was a supporter of Michael Foot, Tony Benn, liked Kinnoch also admired Corbyn, but felt that in today's World he is unelectable as a PM.
 
Delighted to see Starmer committing to Labours 2030 green goals and not pandering to the false flag culture wars of the right on this issue. He's backed up the speech he gave at Silverstone condemning the phony culture wars, for me as a Labour supporter who is perhaps not ideologically aligned with Starmer it is crucial to see a seperation between Labour from the tories anti-science bigoted stances around social and environmental issues.

Gives me some hope at least.
 
They are leaders but Not the Labour Party, I can not stress that more, the Labour Party has always been for me, split, simply put, to the left, right and mostly central. I didn't know Starmer was actually running this war in Palestine and supporting the use of white phosphorus on Children, I just thought he was the leader of the opposition. As for Blair he was the Prime Minister at the time of the Iraq war, there is a thought that he was led by the nose by America. Not taking away the blame as it was found later on that the WMD accusation was false. Yes I would say Jeremy Corbyn was left wing, definitely not far left though and I know you're mind is set and you won't agree with a single thing I've said. Been in trades Union all my life, never once crossed a picket line and never will. In my younger days always been Labour as has all my immediate family, was a supporter of Michael Foot, Tony Benn, liked Kinnoch also admired Corbyn, but felt that in today's World he is unelectable as a PM.
I said 'supporting' genocide, not running, that's disingenuous and an example of how language can be changed to greatly alter the narrative, typo or not. The conversation can now be framed as a 'personal smear' and attack on Starmer. Engaging sympathy, turning against opposition.
I've also been a trade unionist, still am. 45 years. I've spoken at regional and national levels, conferences and congress. Almost always to ground level members, the rank and file, occassionally to MPs and regional and national officers. And over that period of time I've seen change from consideration for those less fortunate to outright careerism with the party and unions.
So, you're right, I won't change my mind, based on experience and current, existing systems. It's conviction politics. Something that exists very seldomly these days, especially amongst leaders, and the leader of HM Opposition who supports the Israeli genocide which has used white phosphorous on children.
 
Tory megafan Dave still running scared of the question "Why shouldn't Starmer win the next election if the socialists are on the march to power anyway?". This depth of cowardice is just incredible to see, and so strange he can't translate his clear visceral hatred into any sort of reasoning he'd be happy to share in public. Must be a source of deep shame to Dave, his true feelings on this.

Pitiable, really. And weird to think someone so unwilling to engage constructively with a political question thinks anyone should take their posts on the subject seriously!
@davek can you answer the mans simple question?
 
Ive posted this before about Corbyn and his popularity. The gammons may have turned on Labour in what was effectively the Brexit election (thanks to Starmer pushing within the Labour party for another referendum...which he of course has now fallen silent on like the u-turning turd he is) but the LP performance under Corbyn in attracting voters was better than under Blair in 2005, Brown in 2010 and Miliband in 2015.

Under Corbyn in 2019 - 10.5 million voted for the LP
Under Corbyn in 2017 = 13 million voted for the LP
Under Miliband in 2015 = 9.3 million voted for the LP
Under Brown in 2010 = 8.6 million voted for the LP
Under Blair in 2005 = 9.5 million voted for the LP

Tbf, he did catch the imagination of the young while May was PM…….
 
Iv answered it. If he cant accept the answer then I;m not going to repeat it ad nauseam.

Nope, you haven't even tried to answer it, you just threw a few random Starmer insults and ran off. You really are a Tory, aren't you? "I've already addressed this". Textbook behaviour.

Go ahead if you've actually got an answer, but we both know what it is and why you're ashamed to say it publicly.

Why, specifically, do you want the Tories to get in and deny a Starmer-led Government ahead of your predicted Socialist win in '29?

And no, "because he's a 'kin rat Mancunian" isn't an answer as to why you prefer the Tories and are imploring others to vote Green to ensure a Rishi victory.
 
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Delighted to see Starmer committing to Labours 2030 green goals and not pandering to the false flag culture wars of the right on this issue. He's backed up the speech he gave at Silverstone condemning the phony culture wars, for me as a Labour supporter who is perhaps not ideologically aligned with Starmer it is crucial to see a seperation between Labour from the tories anti-science bigoted stances around social and environmental issues.

Gives me some hope at least.
That should be a matter of course: Labour should diametrically oppose the Tories on almost all major issues concerning social life and the economy.

The fact that you're having to rummage in the bins of political party policy to come up with Starmer's latest BS press release and find one distinction between Labour and Tories tells you all you need to know...this is not the Labour Party anymore. The next election is being fought on Tory territory: fiscal prudence + more deregulation + more anti-immigration....and which party Red or Blue can best carry that out.

The Tories have parked their ideological tanks so far up Labour's lawn they practically own the house too.
 
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