Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Spadge Vernacular]

That should be a matter of course: Labour should diametrically oppose the Tories on almost all major issues concerning social life and the economy.

The fact that you're having to rummage in the bins of political party policy to come up with Starmer's latest BS press release and find one distinction between Labour and Tories tells you all you need to know...this is not the Labour Party anymore. The next election is being fought on Tory territory: fiscal prudence + more deregulation + more anti-immigration....and which party Red or Blue can best carry that out.

The Tories have parked their ideological tanks so far up Labour's lawn they practically own the house too.

 

[davek]

Yet I dont recall any Labour Party Governments in the past doing any of the things you mention.

lol

 

[davek]

You also said diametric opposition. This means that either you believe the Tories are dead wrong on almost every major issue, or that Labour is somehow obligated to take a precisely opposing stance even when that is not right for the country.

Governance isn't a dialectic. Parties should say what they want done, then do it if they obtain power. This is how they build credibility. If Labour is taking the approach of grabbing the low-hanging fruit as a means of proving they are more trustworthy than the Tories, and as a pathway to drumming up electoral support for more substantive change later, there's nothing wrong with that. It's smart. They can't make any changes without power.

Governance is not fast food. You can't have it your way tomorrow. If the other side has held power for fourteen years, odds are it will take a decent fraction of that time to unwind whatever changes they made in a way that does not cause chaos.

Another way of expressing that is pandering to reactionaries. What sort of progressive force for good ever does that?

You cant't triangulate and be a serious political force. Blairism proved that ultimately.

But in any case Starmer isn't even triangulating - it's much more simple than that. Starmer is stealing the political clothes of the Tories en bloc and dumping the Labour Party's core values...which is why almost 40% of the membership of that party has left it in the last 4 years....it's also the reason that there'll be a challenge to Starmer's lot from the left sometime into the next parliament.

Just as Labour burst out of the old Liberal Party when trade unionists abandoned the latter - progressives and radicals within it no longer able to stomach it - so will the departing 170,000 departing Labour members create a progressive / radical force by bursting out of the Labour Party. Starmer will be the gravedigger of the 'Labour' Party

 

[magicjuan]

There is no Labour party. At least the war criminal changed its name.
Sooner the unions put their funding to better use the sooner Stsrmer will be seen for what he is, an establishment shill.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

I'd like to hear more from labour on addressing these kind of challenges:

Health inequalities ‘caused 1m early deaths in England in last decade’

Exclusive: Review by Michael Marmot decries ‘shocking political failure’ behind differing life expectancies across country

www.theguardian.com

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Sir Keir Starmer has pledged to deliver clean power for the UK by 2030 - and told Sky News he wants to have "a fight" with the Conservative Party on his green commitments.

Asked about the 2030 pledge, he told Wilfred Frost on Sky News: "I'm not prepared to move that date. People keep saying to me, are you moving back on your goal? No, we're not - clean power by 2030.

"But look, it's absolutely clear to me that the Tories are trying to weaponise this issue, the £28bn, etc.

"It's a fight I want to have, if we can have a fight going into the election between an incoming Labour government that wants to invest in the future long-term strategy that will lower our bills and give us energy independence, versus stagnation, more of the same under this government.

Its one thing Starmer needs to point out repeatedly is that it's a lot harder to export renewables than it is to export the oil & gas that Sunak and his faux Green brigade keeps claiming will keep our prices low. We know that will end up being exported to the highest bidder.

Sir Keir Starmer commits to clean power by 2030

Speaking to Sky News, the Labour leader said that Rishi Sunak was putting "vanity before country" by not calling an election straight away.

news.sky.com

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'd like to hear more from labour on addressing these kind of challenges:

Health inequalities ‘caused 1m early deaths in England in last decade’

Exclusive: Review by Michael Marmot decries ‘shocking political failure’ behind differing life expectancies across country

www.theguardian.com

You would hope they would have ideas around this, but generally speaking these aren't the kind of issues that move people to vote. Think back to the Brexit vote and all the actual evidence in the world wasn't enough to shift the thinking of the Joeys of the world. It's hard to boil complex issues down into the kind of soundbites through which most people think about politics.

 

[mahermi1]

You also said diametric opposition. This means that either you believe the Tories are dead wrong on almost every major issue, or that Labour is somehow obligated to take a precisely opposing stance even when that is not right for the country.

Governance isn't a dialectic. Parties should say what they want done, then do it if they obtain power. This is how they build credibility. If Labour is taking the approach of grabbing the low-hanging fruit as a means of proving they are more trustworthy than the Tories, and as a pathway to drumming up electoral support for more substantive change later, there's nothing wrong with that. It's smart. They can't make any changes without power.

Governance is not fast food. You can't have it your way tomorrow. If the other side has held power for fourteen years, odds are it will take a decent fraction of that time to unwind whatever changes they made in a way that does not cause chaos.

God built the World in 7 days, Dave would want it completed in two.

 

[Martin Alvito]

God built the World in 7 days, Dave would want it completed in two.

Good thing he's not American, then. He would expect same-day service.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

You would hope they would have ideas around this, but generally speaking these aren't the kind of issues that move people to vote. Think back to the Brexit vote and all the actual evidence in the world wasn't enough to shift the thinking of the Joeys of the world. It's hard to boil complex issues down into the kind of soundbites through which most people think about politics.

You're right, it's the pressure point and often direct emotional issues.

Regardless, health inequalities speak to all sorts of immediate material concerns such as housing, jobs (quality, pay and security), healthcare availability.

Simple message is creating a fairer happier and more prosperous country.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

They are leaders but Not the Labour Party, I can not stress that more, the Labour Party has always been for me, split, simply put, to the left, right and mostly central. I didn't know Starmer was actually running this war in Palestine and supporting the use of white phosphorus on Children, I just thought he was the leader of the opposition. As for Blair he was the Prime Minister at the time of the Iraq war, there is a thought that he was led by the nose by America. Not taking away the blame as it was found later on that the WMD accusation was false. Yes I would say Jeremy Corbyn was left wing, definitely not far left though and I know you're mind is set and you won't agree with a single thing I've said. Been in trades Union all my life, never once crossed a picket line and never will. In my younger days always been Labour as has all my immediate family, was a supporter of Michael Foot, Tony Benn, liked Kinnoch also admired Corbyn, but felt that in today's World he is unelectable as a PM.

The difficulty for Corbyn was that for many the old saying, you are the friends you keep, is how you are perceived. Corbyn was suspiciously fond of all things extreme 'left', whatever that means.

 

[davek]

You would hope they would have ideas around this, but generally speaking these aren't the kind of issues that move people to vote. Think back to the Brexit vote and all the actual evidence in the world wasn't enough to shift the thinking of the Joeys of the world. It's hard to boil complex issues down into the kind of soundbites through which most people think about politics.

Can you be any more patronising?

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Can you be any more patronising?

It's alright, I didn't take it that way.

The reality is that inequalities can be addressed and should be addressed as they're make the country worse off in a number of ways.

I take Bruce's point though, that the electoral discourse always ends up emotive and on narrow issues rather than the substantial strategic and structural direction of the country that needs to he discussed.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Can you be any more patronising?

You've been around here almost as long as I have Dave. You know I can be way more patronising.

 

[davek]

It's alright, I didn't take it that way.

The reality is that inequalities can be addressed and should be addressed as they're make the country worse off in a number of ways.

I take Bruce's point though, that the electoral discourse always ends up emotive and on narrow issues rather than the substantial strategic and structural direction of the country that needs to he discussed.

Not helped of course by people in political discussions placing my avatar head on the body of Adolf Hitler or Josef Stalin...