Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Goat]

That should be a matter of course: Labour should diametrically oppose the Tories on almost all major issues concerning social life and the economy.

The fact that you're having to rummage in the bins of political party policy to come up with Starmer's latest BS press release and find one distinction between Labour and Tories tells you all you need to know...this is not the Labour Party anymore. The next election is being fought on Tory territory: fiscal prudence + more deregulation + more anti-immigration....and which party Red or Blue can best carry that out.

The Tories have parked their ideological tanks so far up Labour's lawn they practically own the house too.

People might take you a bit more seriously if you didnt just straight up make stuff up.

Its comical.

 

[peteblue]

That should be a matter of course: Labour should diametrically oppose the Tories on almost all major issues concerning social life and the economy.

The fact that you're having to rummage in the bins of political party policy to come up with Starmer's latest BS press release and find one distinction between Labour and Tories tells you all you need to know...this is not the Labour Party anymore. The next election is being fought on Tory territory: fiscal prudence + more deregulation + more anti-immigration....and which party Red or Blue can best carry that out.

The Tories have parked their ideological tanks so far up Labour's lawn they practically own the house too.

There’s a lot of truth in this Dave, Blair did similar. It’s not about what you believe in but how you can win power. The problem with winning power is that you have to do something with it once you have it. I haven’t a clue what Starmer would do, and I expect neither does Starmer….

 

[Martin Alvito]

That should be a matter of course: Labour should diametrically oppose the Tories on almost all major issues concerning social life and the economy.

Why? Sometimes the other side is right, or half right. There's a whole bunch of noncontroversial stuff that is institutionalized, and just happens, on both sides of the pond. Neither Democrats nor Republicans want to gut the FAA.

 

[davek]

There’s a lot of truth in this Dave, Blair did similar. It’s not about what you believe in but how you can win power. The problem with winning power is that you have to do something with it once you have it. I haven’t a clue what Starmer would do, and I expect neither does Starmer….

Its no use a 'Labour' Party gaining power if they're going to do the Tory's work for them.

As you well know, in the post war era there was Butskellism: a commitment to politics that largely held faith with the 1945 Labour Government's objectives to maintain a mixed economy, full employment (or near as damn it) and a strong and well funded welfare state. Many Tories hated it and when Heath tried to change matters he was battered into submission by the labour movement.

But the consensus probably since Judas Kinnock has been in the other direction: a 'dented shield' coming to terms with neo-liberalism at first, and then a capitulation to it...which is what Starmerism represents.

 

[davek]

Why? Sometimes the other side is right, or half right. There's a whole bunch of noncontroversial stuff that is institutionalized, and just happens, on both sides of the pond. Neither Democrats nor Republicans want to gut the FAA.

That's why I said on almost all major issues.

 

[Goat]

Its no use a 'Labour' Party gaining power if they're going to do the Tory's work for them.

As you well know, in the post war era there was Butskellism: a commitment to politics that largely held faith with the 1945 Labour Government's objectives to maintain a mixed economy, full employment (or near as damn it) and a strong and well funded welfare state. Many Tories hated it and when Heath tried to change matters he was battered into submission by the labour movement.

But the consensus probably since Judas Kinnock has been in the other direction: a 'dented shield' coming to terms with neo-liberalism at first, and then a capitulation to it...which is what Starmerism represents.

This is what Starmerism represents.

 

[davek]

People might take you a bit more seriously if you didnt just straight up make stuff up.

Its comical.

What have I made up precisely?

 

[Goat]

What have I made up precisely?

Red Tories for 1.

Labours Policies are nothing like The Tory Policies.

Nothing.

I suggest you read them.

Plan for Change – The Labour Party

Our Plan for Change sets out ambitious but achievable milestones that will be reached by the end of this Parliament as we drive forward towards delivering on our key national missions, making real improvements to the lives of working people.

labour.org.uk

Dont bother coming back with rubbish from the MSM, I dont want to listen to the message they are trying to sell.

 

[davek]

Red Tories for 1.

Labours Policies are nothing like The Tory Policies.

Nothing.

I suggest you read them.

Plan for Change – The Labour Party

Our Plan for Change sets out ambitious but achievable milestones that will be reached by the end of this Parliament as we drive forward towards delivering on our key national missions, making real improvements to the lives of working people.

labour.org.uk

Dont bother coming back with rubbish from the MSM, I dont want to listen to the message they are trying to sell.

Every single one of those BS aspirations are advocated by the Tories too.

See if you can find me a commitment to nationalisation, scrapping trident, taxing the wealth of the rich (outside the usual "we'll use a windfall tax on Amazon etc" which the Tories have committed to on some industries), borrowing to fund huge infrastructure projects...all typical LP policy.

 

[Goat]

Every single one of those BS aspirations are advocated by the Tories too.

See if you can find me a commitment to nationalisation, scrapping trident, taxing the wealth of the rich (outside the usual "we'll use a windfall tax on Amazon etc" which the Tories have committed to on some industries), borrowing to fund huge infrastructure projects...all typical LP policy.

Yet I dont recall any Labour Party Governments in the past doing any of the things you mention.

 

[Rita_Poon]

How does someone (anyone) run to lead the country on...
"The country is £2.65 Trillion pounds in debt, to address this horrendous financial vandalism we are going to have to have 20 years of hard graft, efficiency, and no nice things to then be able to repay the future we leave to all of our children"

Watched 'Nomadland' last night, and the resultant economic hellscape it details alongside the profound personal losses of those affected through no doing of their own. There are no easy answers from here, it's been the 'have it now and pay next week' mantra that has lumbered so many with an impossible to defeat poverty that is quickly consuming more and more people.

As mentioned elsewhere, with rampaging poverty affecting millions, it is a cauldron of pain and inequality easily exploited by the immensely nasty minded. Hungry bellies make easily seduced listeners to hate and fear and violence.

There is no tomorrow.

 

[Goat]

How does someone (anyone) run to lead the country on...
"The country is £2.65 Trillion pounds in debt, to address this horrendous financial vandalism we are going to have to have 20 years of hard graft, efficiency, and no nice things to then be able to repay the future we leave to all of our children"

Watched 'Nomadland' last night, and the resultant economic hellscape it details alongside the profound personal losses of those affected through no doing of their own. There are no easy answers from here, it's been the 'have it now and pay next week' mantra that has lumbered so many with an impossible to defeat poverty that is quickly consuming more and more people.

As mentioned elsewhere, with rampaging poverty affecting millions, it is a cauldron of pain and inequality easily exploited by the immensely nasty minded. Hungry bellies make easily seduced listeners to hate and fear and violence.

There is no tomorrow.

Hippy Dave over there wants to scrap Trident so his mate Vlad can come in and plant spuds on the M25.

 

[Martin Alvito]

That's why I said on almost all major issues.

You also said diametric opposition. This means that either you believe the Tories are dead wrong on almost every major issue, or that Labour is somehow obligated to take a precisely opposing stance even when that is not right for the country.

Governance isn't a dialectic. Parties should say what they want done, then do it if they obtain power. This is how they build credibility. If Labour is taking the approach of grabbing the low-hanging fruit as a means of proving they are more trustworthy than the Tories, and as a pathway to drumming up electoral support for more substantive change later, there's nothing wrong with that. It's smart. They can't make any changes without power.

Governance is not fast food. You can't have it your way tomorrow. If the other side has held power for fourteen years, odds are it will take a decent fraction of that time to unwind whatever changes they made in a way that does not cause chaos.

 

[Xizor]

You also said diametric opposition. This means that either you believe the Tories are dead wrong on almost every major issue, or that Labour is somehow obligated to take a precisely opposing stance even when that is not right for the country.

Governance isn't a dialectic. Parties should say what they want done, then do it if they obtain power. This is how they build credibility. If Labour is taking the approach of grabbing the low-hanging fruit as a means of proving they are more trustworthy than the Tories, and as a pathway to drumming up electoral support for more substantive change later, there's nothing wrong with that. It's smart. They can't make any changes without power.

Governance is not fast food. You can't have it your way tomorrow. If the other side has held power for fourteen years, odds are it will take a decent fraction of that time to unwind whatever changes they made in a way that does not cause chaos.

You're trying to reason with a toddler mate. He just want to whinge about stuff that only exists in his own head and throw his daily tantrums over Starmer, and isn't actually interested in anything else.

He must be deeply ashamed of himself (or maybe doesn't have the capacity for self-awareness) but is addicted to the attention so carries on.

 

[Charro]

Been a good few weeks for starmer and Labour I think.

Fleshing out some policies and I do sense a little tilt toward the left.