The Guardian pretty much nails it in one...

[nigelcoyb]

Just laugh at this money is everything garbage it's a factor just as always but the love in of the impossible nature of doing something like qualifying for the CL is rank defeatism.

This season has been a massive opportunity given the changes and turmoil at Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal if ever the "policy" of allowing a manager 11 years to build was going to bear fruit this was it.

God forbid we mention the litany of cup debacles by less monied clubs against us or the fact on the odd days we are up for it we tw@t both sets of mancs. Of course money has an effect but half the problem at this club is the readiness to accept the range represented by the Wigan defeat and City victory when quite clearly motivation is the factor.

I believe there was at least an extra 6 points in this side this year and don't get me started on the FA cup.

That's what this piece is about it's got fck all to do with all out attack or any of the spurious claims - effective football mixed short and long with a bit of zip - could have won the derby quite comfortably if we'd had a bit of that.

 

[BadWool76]

MOYES is the problem. He is bouncing off that glass ceiling like a balloon at birthday party

 

[Stan Lee Park]

Seems the post-Derby depression is lingering into a third day here.
Leaving aside the desperately disappointing defeat in the FA Cup, I think we have had a good season overall. Finishing 6th in the league is hardly failure and in the first half of the season we played some scintillating football without always going on to win games.
One factor totally ignored in this thread is the lack of goals from Jelavic - THE major difference between the second half of last season and the whole of this season. If he had maintained his initial form, we would be sitting comfortably in a Champions League place rather than feeling faintly embarrassed about celebrating finishing above the ****e.

 

[trebilcock66]

Seems the post-Derby depression is lingering into a third day here.
Leaving aside the desperately disappointing defeat in the FA Cup, I think we have had a good season overall. Finishing 6th in the league is hardly failure and in the first half of the season we played some scintillating football without always going on to win games.
One factor totally ignored in this thread is the lack of goals from Jelavic - THE major difference between the second half of last season and the whole of this season. If he had maintained his initial form, we would be sitting comfortably in a Champions League place rather than feeling faintly embarrassed about celebrating finishing above the ****e.

Is right....thankfully not that much celebrating going on on this forum but I'm embarrassed by this whole subject of who finishes higher. The BBC (Alan Green in particular, the antithesis of objective reporting) love to point out how it matters more to us than to Liverpool. Also enables Jamie C to taunt us in his postmatch interview....."Credit to Everton for gettn a draw 'ere....that's a good result for dem dat...." Embarrassing is the word alright.....

 

[Timak]

Just laugh at this money is everything garbage it's a factor just as always but the love in of the impossible nature of doing something like qualifying for the CL is rank defeatism.

Name a team that has qualified for it (apart from Everton) without major money?
Surely there will be one team you can name?

This season has been a massive opportunity given the changes and turmoil at Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal if ever the "policy" of allowing a manager 11 years to build was going to bear fruit this was it.

Turmoil? Apart from the RS every team you've mentioned finished above us last year, and all invested heavily in their squads over the summer and winter transfer windows.

God forbid we mention the litany of cup debacles by less monied clubs against us or the fact on the odd days we are up for it we tw@t both sets of mancs. Of course money has an effect but half the problem at this club is the readiness to accept the range represented by the Wigan defeat and City victory when quite clearly motivation is the factor.

You seem to forget we play against opponents. What if they are as motivated as we are?

I believe there was at least an extra 6 points in this side this year and don't get me started on the FA cup.

That's what this piece is about it's got fck all to do with all out attack or any of the spurious claims - effective football mixed short and long with a bit of zip - could have won the derby quite comfortably if we'd had a bit of that.

Ah right, all we had to do is play brilliantly every game and we'd have got 70+ points, qualified for the CL and won the cup and derby. Why doesn't Moyes just get them to do it then?

And more to the point why does no other manager get their team to do it?

Your point would make sense if other clubs were doing it and Moyes' team weren't but there aren't ANY others that do. It is now 7 years of finishing in the top 8 (and 8th is the lowest we've finished) and in that time only Newcastle, once, have finished above us on similar money. Every other time it has been clubs who have spent vast sums of money to do so.

 

[NewRadical]

Just laugh at this money is everything garbage it's a factor just as always but the love in of the impossible nature of doing something like qualifying for the CL is rank defeatism.

This season has been a massive opportunity given the changes and turmoil at Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal if ever the "policy" of allowing a manager 11 years to build was going to bear fruit this was it.

God forbid we mention the litany of cup debacles by less monied clubs against us or the fact on the odd days we are up for it we tw@t both sets of mancs. Of course money has an effect but half the problem at this club is the readiness to accept the range represented by the Wigan defeat and City victory when quite clearly motivation is the factor.

I believe there was at least an extra 6 points in this side this year and don't get me started on the FA cup.

That's what this piece is about it's got fck all to do with all out attack or any of the spurious claims - effective football mixed short and long with a bit of zip - could have won the derby quite comfortably if we'd had a bit of that.

Norwich home and away dropped 5 points, Fulham away 2 points, Reading away 3 points.

They were games that we were in a winning position and should have won, that weren't affected by poor refereeing decisions.

I make that 10 points dropped.

We would be in third now.

 

[Jags..class]

Norwich home and away dropped 5 points, Fulham away 1 point, Reading away 3 points.

They were games that we were in a winning position and should have won, that weren't affected by poor refereeing decisions.

I make that 9 points dropped.

We would be in third now.

Hahaha wtf,

 

[NewRadical]

Hahaha wtf,

Would you care to expand?

 

[Timak]

Would you care to expand?

I'm sure every team in the league can say the same thing about their games.

 

[NewRadical]

I'm sure every team in the league can say the same thing about their games.

Well, yes.

But I took the jist of the article that the team's negativity had cost us, and those games have stuck with me the season through. I don't think bad luck cost us in those games as it did against Newcastle at home, Man City away and I'm sure there are other examples.

For the record I think Moyes has done a good job, but lack of funds can't be blamed for certain results.

And I don't believe there was anything fantastical in what I wrote.

 

[Allezfan]

Well, yes.

But I took the jist of the article that the team's negativity had cost us, and those games have stuck with me the season through. I don't think bad luck cost us in those games as it did against Newcastle at home, Man City away and I'm sure there are other examples.

For the record I think Moyes has done a good job, but lack of funds can't be blamed for certain results.

And I don't believe there was anything fantastical in what I wrote.

Yeah, I think this squad could do better than 6th if managed better.

That doesn't remotely ignore how hard it is to assemble this squad on this budget.

 

[barkleys splinter]

If we're overachieving then that means others must be underachieving. Now, the RS apart from those below us, who fits the bill? Who has spent like a top 4 side and is going to finish below us? No one.

The fact is that we can put out nearly two sides consisting of capped players. We have at least 3 players who would fetch £10m+ if we were to sell. Who from the sides below us (again RS apart) could boast the same? No one.

Over achieving, my arse. With the players we have we're more or less where we ought to be.

 

[blueblue]

Liverpool are desperately trying to play up the big club versus small club theme.
The reality is that a draw was a bad result for both clubs.
It was a bad result for Liverpool because it practically killed any chance they had of finishing above Everton this season.

It was a bad result for Everton because it killed any lingering hope we had of a CL place or a Europa league place.
The Liverpool spin has been to ignore that Everton were trying to win to keep alive a hope of European qualification whereas it was Liverpool that had only local pride to play for.
They are past masters at this kind of thing.They are not totally out of a title race when they are maybe fifteen points behind the league leaders.they have real hopes of a CL finishing spot even when they are in the bottom half of the table.
It is propaganga for their mindless supporters who cannot accept that Liverpool are a top half of the premiership table club ,but not close to a top four premiership club.

 

[Khalekan]

Well, yes.

But I took the jist of the article that the team's negativity had cost us, and those games have stuck with me the season through. I don't think bad luck cost us in those games as it did against Newcastle at home, Man City away and I'm sure there are other examples.

For the record I think Moyes has done a good job, but lack of funds can't be blamed for certain results.

And I don't believe there was anything fantastical in what I wrote.

Great post.

Bad luck at Man. City and the incompetence of the officials cost us dearly at home to Newcastle and at Anfield.

But as someone mentioned, all teams could justifiably point to moments like this in a season.

It is the five points dropped at Fulham and Norwich which I am most irked about.

Because in both those games we had the opposition on the rack with time running out but the manager chose to "shut up shop" with negative substitutions and alllowed them to get back in the game.

That is the point the fellow writing the argument was making and he is spot on in what he says.

 

[Allezfan]

If we're overachieving then that means others must be underachieving. Now, the RS apart from those below us, who fits the bill? Who has spent like a top 4 side and is going to finish below us? No one.

The fact is that we can put out nearly two sides consisting of capped players. We have at least 3 players who would fetch £10m+ if we were to sell. Who from the sides below us (again RS apart) could boast the same? No one.

Over achieving, my arse. With the players we have we're more or less where we ought to be.

Villa have spent like a top 4 team. So have the Rs and so have QPR.

Sunderland, Stoke, Fulham and Newcastle haven't spent like a top 4 team but have still outspent us.

The fact that we have a team full of internationls and players worth money if sold is why we're overachieving given that those players cost less and earn less than the players of our rivals.