Current Affairs The General Election

[Blues Harp]

I've just said that if you have the base McDonald's wage at £15 per hour, that doesn't happen in isolation. Other fast food companies have to compete or have staff shortages/strikes as a knock-on, so the base wage goes up exponentially (this is a 33% increase). Other low skilled jobs (supermarket staff etc.) look on and then expect higher. Prices will rise as a result, skilled labour will rise sharply in price too. Educated professionals demand higher wages, so enterprise gets hit and can't grow. You get inflation as a result and a slower economy, job losses because the workforce is too expensive and won't keep up with output and so on.

People really need to start having the ability to think laterally about issues like this.

I have no problem with the McDonald's workers asking for it - I have a problem with a guy who wants to be PM supporting it because he's an ideological maniac.

Is austerity policy not idealogical? Because there is a gang of maniacs who have supported it for the last 10 years and are Tory ministers.

 

[neil999]

Why?

because the idea of someone working at mcdonalds getting £15 an hour is ridiculous to the average voter

 

[catcherintherye]

because the idea of someone working at mcdonalds getting £15 an hour is ridiculous to the average voter

I'm not so sure you know. 15 pounds is not that much per hour and I'd imagine quite a few people will think good on them. I know thats my view. I doubt they will get 15 but they'll certainly get an increase. If a company can pay people circa 10 million a year to me it can pay the employees who run the stores and ensure the success of the business up to £15.00 an hour. I might be massively out on this though.

 

[neil999]

I'm not so sure you know. 15 pounds is not that much per hour and I'd imagine quite a few people will think good on them. I know thats my view. I doubt they will get 15 but they'll certainly get an increase. If a company can pay people circa 10 million a year to me it can pay the employees who run the stores and ensure the success of the business up to £15.00 an hour. I might be massively out on this though.

full time its 30k a year!

its such an easy target for tories -'corbyn thinks mcdonalds workers should be on 30k a year'

 

[Blues Harp]

because the idea of someone working at mcdonalds getting £15 an hour is ridiculous to the average voter

Negotiating stance I think....there are other issues at stake here for the workers.

 

[abelard]

I'm not so sure you know. 15 pounds is not that much per hour and I'd imagine quite a few people will think good on them. I know thats my view. I doubt they will get 15 but they'll certainly get an increase. If a company can pay people circa 10 million a year to me it can pay the employees who run the stores and ensure the success of the business up to £15.00 an hour. I might be massively out on this though.

the key will be to present it so that it resonates with everyone on low-wage zero-hours food bank-dependent contracts, and not just as special favour to McDonalds workers

as usual, there is actually a lot of evidence to suggest that raising low-level wages would be a very good thing for the UK economy, especially for improving labour productivity

Higher real wages would raise productivity and boost demand | LSE British Politics

The erosion of real wages has affected adversely the motivation and morale of workers thereby weakening productivity, argues David Spencer. Higher real wages would raise productivity and also induce the demand needed to absorb the extra output created by the rise in productivity. In short, a...

blogs.lse.ac.uk

Efficiency Wage Theory - Economics Help

Definition and explanation of efficiency wage theory - Higher wages increase productivity. Reasons for efficiency wage and do workers really work harder, if you pay more?

www.economicshelp.org

 

[neil999]

Negotiating stance I think....there are other issues at stake here for the workers.

oh no doubt...but dont retweet it if your labour leader

 

[dwightschrute]

Not being an area I know much about, what are Labour plans for it? It seems instinctively that simplifying the welfare system makes sense, but also that the roll out universal credit has been shambolic. Is that a fair summation or is there something fundamentally wrong with universal credit, and what would Labour do if that is the case?

Yes. UC is linked with a increase in poverty and food parcels everywhere its been rolled out due to the initial 5 wait week it had, SIX YEAR SCHEDULE IT IS BEHIND ON, the caps they've introduced to make it harder to get in the first place and just the ineptitude of the tories and departments handling it (obviously not an area they care much about as having a strong social blanket to fall back on isnt exactly in their ideology)

Labour would get rid of the horrible culture and targets that @Kurt has already pointed out happens in DWP assessments as he's been there in person, invest more in social security, end it being only online you can claim as everyone doesnt have access to computers, and pay it fortnightly instead of monthly for better planning. Obviously have to wait until the manifesto to see the full reforms and changes they will make to it, but as you know its not just UC that is making people need food banks and become homeless, its the rest of the policies in place by them

 

[catcherintherye]

full time its 30k a year!

its such an easy target for tories -'corbyn thinks mcdonalds workers should be on 30k a year'

I think for lots of people, they will say in a world where there was pearl clutching for the rights of billionaires to exist, why shouldn't people earn 30k per year? If you go to the continent it's not uncommon for those working in the service industry to be paid more.

If I saw a Tory MP saying someone wasn't worth 30k a year, my inclination would be, whydo you think you are worth 3 or 4 times that value (plus the lavishing expenses)?

 

[catcherintherye]

the key will be to present it so that it resonates with everyone on low-wage zero-hours food bank-dependent contracts, and not just as special favour to McDonalds workers

as usual, there is actually a lot of evidence to suggest that raising low-level wages would be a very good thing for the UK economy, especially for improving labour productivity

Higher real wages would raise productivity and boost demand | LSE British Politics

The erosion of real wages has affected adversely the motivation and morale of workers thereby weakening productivity, argues David Spencer. Higher real wages would raise productivity and also induce the demand needed to absorb the extra output created by the rise in productivity. In short, a...

blogs.lse.ac.uk

Efficiency Wage Theory - Economics Help

Definition and explanation of efficiency wage theory - Higher wages increase productivity. Reasons for efficiency wage and do workers really work harder, if you pay more?

www.economicshelp.org

Yes I agree. To me it makes a lot of economic sense, in a country that is broken via entrenched inequality to radically rise the salaries of the poor to middling earners to give them a greater stake in society.

As I've said previously, in my previous property you would barely be able to make ends meet on 30k p/a.

 

[zzr45]

I did read the rest of your post but this bit didn't make any sense to me.

It's not a policy, it's a negotiation between McDonalds employees and the company. All Corbyn is doing is highlighting the demands and sending his support.

You might argue that it's not sensible to do so, but it doesn't demonstrate 'fag packet economics'. Wait until the Manifesto is released then decide if it is sensible or not, effectively costed or not, achievable or not.

The economic arguments are starting to look very smoke and mirrors throughout this current election - as they were in the last. Labours last manifesto was fully costed, much it seemed to the annoyance of many journalists who wanted to jab holes in it; instead they picked specific figures in it for 'gotcha' moments when MPs couldn't recall specific numbers they were being asked - and when they checked, the repeated line was 'why are you checking, don't you know'. Awful lazy journalism.

Meanwhile, the Tories, like the last election, are allowed to offer little detail of costs or numbers presumably as most journalists don't actually believe or care that they will do what they are saying. Much like the 40 hospitals claim that's repeated ad nauseum but has been inconsistently challenged.

On a final note, I find it laughable that those championing Brexit precisely because of the strength of the UK economy and the 'tremendous' growth we have, simultaneous believe that we can't afford policies designed to help everyone in the country. Or, that the amazing deals we have been promised will do post Brexit won't be able to pay for it all.

Yeah the problem for me is that there’s still this hangover that the in the last election it wasn’t priced up and felt rushed. Even supporting that it feels like ideological good is being put ahead of the realities of the industry. Yes it would be wonderful if they got paid £15 but what are the wider implications.

As you’ve said, the problem Corbyn has often had is perceiving how the public will take what he says. I see this endorsement of what the workers are trying to do as ever so slightly risky - after all if he’s backed scrapping of youth rates in this case, is that something that will be replicated should Labour get into power across the board?

It’s all a bit bull in a china shop sometimes.

 

[neil999]

decent from mcdonnell- 95% wont pay more tax, working towards 32 hour week...good headline announcments

 

[Jebus_lives]

Yeah the problem for me is that there’s still this hangover that the in the last election it wasn’t priced up and felt rushed. Even supporting that it feels like ideological good is being put ahead of the realities of the industry. Yes it would be wonderful if they got paid £15 but what are the wider implications.

As you’ve said, the problem Corbyn has often had is perceiving how the public will take what he says. I see this endorsement of what the workers are trying to do as ever so slightly risky - after all if he’s backed scrapping of youth rates in this case, is that something that will be replicated should Labour get into power across the board?

It’s all a bit bull in a china shop sometimes.

Labours last manifesto was fully costed - it was priced up and accounted for through taxation. They made a huge play that it was fully costed, hence the comment about journalists going to the 'gotcha'. Now the IFS did, I think a little later, say that they had underestimated, but it wasn't a huge underestimation.

And McDonalds paying their workers £15 is a decision for McDonalds and the wider implications will.gave to be addressed by them.

 

[zzr45]

the key will be to present it so that it resonates with everyone on low-wage zero-hours food bank-dependent contracts, and not just as special favour to McDonalds workers

as usual, there is actually a lot of evidence to suggest that raising low-level wages would be a very good thing for the UK economy, especially for improving labour productivity

Higher real wages would raise productivity and boost demand | LSE British Politics

The erosion of real wages has affected adversely the motivation and morale of workers thereby weakening productivity, argues David Spencer. Higher real wages would raise productivity and also induce the demand needed to absorb the extra output created by the rise in productivity. In short, a...

blogs.lse.ac.uk

Efficiency Wage Theory - Economics Help

Definition and explanation of efficiency wage theory - Higher wages increase productivity. Reasons for efficiency wage and do workers really work harder, if you pay more?

www.economicshelp.org

You just have to ignore the underlying issue that by increasing the cost of workers, it makes companies more likely to use technology to reduce costs. The reason we have particularly high rates of employment is that in many cases it's actually cheaper to employee people to do the jobs than use automation. Again, using the example of McDonalds, the staff numbers they have employed has reduced as they've brought in more automated ordering systems. It might be good for the economy and productivity, not so good for workers.

Minimum wage increases lead to faster job automation

Read new research on how increases in minimum wage lead to faster automation of jobs

www.lse.ac.uk

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

I think for lots of people, they will say in a world where there was pearl clutching for the rights of billionaires to exist, why shouldn't people earn 30k per year? If you go to the continent it's not uncommon for those working in the service industry to be paid more.

Hanging out with writers and musicians and having a girlfriend who runs a bar, I know a lot of people in the HORECA sector. €12.50 is about the going hourly rate, which scales up to about €1200 a month after tax or €19k a year gross.

I know one guy who probably makes €30k a year but his nickname is HORECA (female dog) because he works so many different jobs.