Current Affairs The General Election

[Disgruntledgoat]

Who in this day and age is interested in Union recognition. I know the public sector love it, but it’s pretty well dead in the money making private sector......

Tell you what Pete, it's only in the UK where people have such a boneheaded, backwards attitude to unions.

I was most grateful of mine last year when I was bullied out of my job. They do the collective bargaining that sees everybody, public and private sector get a cost of living raise every year, their insurance scheme kept my income at about 60% of what it was when I was fired, they supported me in the fight to get a settlement, they make sure people's working hours and conditions are safe and fair and they offer lots of little things like free creches during the summer for members who have to work when the kids are off school.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Tell you what Pete, it's only in the UK where people have such a boneheaded, backwards attitude to unions.

I was most grateful of mine last year when I was bullied out of my job. They do the collective bargaining that sees everybody, public and private sector get a cost of living raise every year, their insurance scheme kept my income at about 60% of what it was when I was fired, they supported me in the fight to get a settlement, they make sure people's working hours and conditions are safe and fair and they offer lots of little things like free creches during the summer for members who have to work when the kids are off school.

I would advise anyone to join a union personally. The way some employers treat staff, I’d regard it as a necessity.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

This is part of the problem though Bruce. The Lib Dems had an opportunity to take a lot of moral high ground by standing aside in a seat they cannot win to allow Labour a chance to hold a seat.

The Liberal have made very clear, for some time that Remain is the critical part of their future political programme. This does not tally with overruling local parties and imposing paper candidates to stop Labour winning and allowing the Conservatives to win.

In fairness Labour have never been so stringent on Brexit in either direction, so it makes a lot less sense to stand down. They have made public services restoration a key and there's little evidence to suggest the Liberal Democrats are particularly different to the Tories in this area.

As a final aside, how many seats have the Tories stood down in re the Brexit party? None. And I tell you why, because they understand under FPTP that however unfair it is, it's about compromise and maximising the main parties opportunities to win in certain areas. They have understood the best chance for them to get their preferred outcome, however unfair it is to the BXP is to stand aside. I'd say Farage has realised he doesn't want to take the flak for it if it fails.

I can't help but think, if the Tories win, on the back of seats like Canterbury there will be a lot of angry retainers towards the Lib Dems selfish actions. I'll ask a final question, why can they stand aside for leave MP's such as Rory Stewart, or Anna Soubry who voted for Brexit deals, but not for the MP for Canterbury who has always voted against Brexit? Where is the consistency there?

I have always been on the fence about Brexit. The Lib Dems can have whatever position they want on it. But they ought to cut the nonsense that they are a remain party, when they have forgone the position of a People's vote, will move aside for Brexit supporting MP's but will stand against PV supporting, Remain voting MP's to allow a Tory Brexiteer to win. That's not putting Remain first, thats putting themselves first when there is nothing to be gained.

As has been said above though, whereas the Brexit Party can rest easy that the Tories are fundamentally a leave party, the same can't be said about Labour and remain. It's also important to note that whereas the Brexit Party are largely a single issue party, so as long as the Tories support that single issue to their satisfaction, then it's job done, there is an awful lot of difference between Labour and LDs on non-Brexit issues. Throw in the constant yellow Tory jibes and it's hardly surprising that the LDs aren't that keen to work with a party that has shown precious little warmth towards them. This is, of course, compounded by the fact that the LDs collected quite a few MPs who specifically left the Labour party because of its leadership.

It's not a great recipe for cooperation.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

I would advise anyone to join a union personally. The way some employers treat staff, I’d regard it as a necessity.

Particularly now the private sector thinks it owns its staff rather than buying their time from them.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I would advise anyone to join a union personally. The way some employers treat staff, I’d regard it as a necessity.

@GrandOldTeam won't let us unionise

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

@GrandOldTeam won't let us unionise

STRRRIIIIIIIIIIKE!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

STRRRIIIIIIIIIIKE!

If we do that he's threatened to replace us with @Bungle

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

If we do that he's threatened to replace us with @Bungle

I'd suggest milk shaking him and calling him a scab... but he'd probably enjoy it

 

[dwightschrute]

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

Ashamed that 22 fellow evertonians according to the thread poll could vote for this to continue

 

[Jebus_lives]

The problem is aside from the 'headline' £15 per hour position, which in itself is mad, I think there are so many problematic issues that are also being endorsed as per the Morningstar - https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/b/mcdonalds-workers-to-strike-in-demand-of-£15-an-hour.

I actually think the 'guaranteed hours' is problematic, especially within the hospitality industry (sake of convenience umbrella in pubs, food outlets, hotels etc.) the reality is that guaranteed hours don't exist within the industry because of the nature of demand - as a youth I once worked 60 hours in a week then 8 the next, it was just the way it went. If I wanted a guaranteed 16 hours a week, the company I was working for would have shelled out for me to sit and do nothing. That doesn't exactly help the productivity issue the country has, nor if this was to trickle down into smaller, independent companies (which it inevitably would to remain attractive to employees) then these kinds of places would be haemorrhaging cash for no return.

On a similar note, the having hours 4 weeks in advance sounds fine - but let's say the Maccies closest to Goodison does it's rota a month in advance. We then end up with a replay at short notice - the hours are already in place, so does that mean that they have to try and get by understaffed? Likewise, game gets changed from a Saturday to a Sunday short notice - does it have a far bigger staff than it needs on the Saturday? There's always been a weekly rota in hospitality because it allows flexibility in changes.

Finally, before this becomes too overdrawn, perhaps the most 'dangerous' idea as such is the removal of the youth rate of pay - in that even a 16 year old can get £15 per hour. The issue here is that youth rates are leverage to actually get companies to hire younger people. If that is withdrawn then a 16 year old is competing in a job market with a 40 year old with 25 years of experience - the likelihood of the 16 year old diminishes rapidly. Again, if this is carried over to the hospitality industry as a whole we end up starting to seeing lower youth employment and have to work towards the issues that causes.

The pay issue is daft, when you start scratching you see a wilful ignorance of the environment those workers are part of to promote an ideological standing, which if carried through could have massive implications. It does nothing to shake the feeling of fag packet economics.

I did read the rest of your post but this bit didn't make any sense to me.

It's not a policy, it's a negotiation between McDonalds employees and the company. All Corbyn is doing is highlighting the demands and sending his support.

You might argue that it's not sensible to do so, but it doesn't demonstrate 'fag packet economics'. Wait until the Manifesto is released then decide if it is sensible or not, effectively costed or not, achievable or not.

The economic arguments are starting to look very smoke and mirrors throughout this current election - as they were in the last. Labours last manifesto was fully costed, much it seemed to the annoyance of many journalists who wanted to jab holes in it; instead they picked specific figures in it for 'gotcha' moments when MPs couldn't recall specific numbers they were being asked - and when they checked, the repeated line was 'why are you checking, don't you know'. Awful lazy journalism.

Meanwhile, the Tories, like the last election, are allowed to offer little detail of costs or numbers presumably as most journalists don't actually believe or care that they will do what they are saying. Much like the 40 hospitals claim that's repeated ad nauseum but has been inconsistently challenged.

On a final note, I find it laughable that those championing Brexit precisely because of the strength of the UK economy and the 'tremendous' growth we have, simultaneous believe that we can't afford policies designed to help everyone in the country. Or, that the amazing deals we have been promised will do post Brexit won't be able to pay for it all.

 

[catcherintherye]

As has been said above though, whereas the Brexit Party can rest easy that the Tories are fundamentally a leave party, the same can't be said about Labour and remain. It's also important to note that whereas the Brexit Party are largely a single issue party, so as long as the Tories support that single issue to their satisfaction, then it's job done, there is an awful lot of difference between Labour and LDs on non-Brexit issues. Throw in the constant yellow Tory jibes and it's hardly surprising that the LDs aren't that keen to work with a party that has shown precious little warmth towards them. This is, of course, compounded by the fact that the LDs collected quite a few MPs who specifically left the Labour party because of its leadership.

It's not a great recipe for cooperation.

I'm in full agreement about the jibes and they go both ways. I mean the anti-semitism nonsense that's lashed about at Labour members, or the communist/marxist idiocy remains thus.

I agree the Liberal Democrats are not a single issue party, but for a long time they have operated in such a way. There has been very little focus on anything other than Brexit. I don't know any of their other policies. When they knocked on the door the other day, it was all around Brexit. That's been the turn they have made. Their main criticism of Labour has been they have not been enough of a single issue party on Brexit and Remain, so I'm not sure they can have their cake and eat it.

I'm also not sure how we can justify a position Labour is not a remain party? I mean Labour seems to be the Schrodingers cat of politics in that we are supposedly sell out retainers or hardened Brexiteers simultaneously. It's not a credible position.

If we boil down to what Labour are going to do, they will offer a People's Vote, and they will also ensure there is a softer Brexit Deal on the table to the one negotiated. To me this is consistent with the Liberal Democrat position, and indeed Jo Swinsons own position when she said she wanted a vote on the EU membership. I'm struggling to see how this is not a remain position? Are we at the point that the only remain position is to support the option of revoking article 50?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

Ashamed that 22 fellow evertonians according to the thread poll could vote for this to continue

Not being an area I know much about, what are Labour plans for it? It seems instinctively that simplifying the welfare system makes sense, but also that the roll out universal credit has been shambolic. Is that a fair summation or is there something fundamentally wrong with universal credit, and what would Labour do if that is the case?

 

[Jebus_lives]

As has been said above though, whereas the Brexit Party can rest easy that the Tories are fundamentally a leave party, the same can't be said about Labour and remain. It's also important to note that whereas the Brexit Party are largely a single issue party, so as long as the Tories support that single issue to their satisfaction, then it's job done, there is an awful lot of difference between Labour and LDs on non-Brexit issues. Throw in the constant yellow Tory jibes and it's hardly surprising that the LDs aren't that keen to work with a party that has shown precious little warmth towards them. This is, of course, compounded by the fact that the LDs collected quite a few MPs who specifically left the Labour party because of its leadership.

It's not a great recipe for cooperation.

Sadly, I suspect a lot of people in the country would be very hard pressed to tell you a policy of the Lib Dems that wasn't simply 'Remain'.

 

[Blues Harp]

He's an actual idiot.

Why?

 

[Bungle]

I'd suggest milk shaking him and calling him a scab... but he'd probably enjoy it

Pretty much how most of my morning walks through town to work start so it holds no fear.