Current Affairs The General Election

[catcherintherye]

Johnson has already culled the awkward squad.......

He has. That he has Johnson is his back pocket is some achievement.

However don't confused. A new squad will emerge. It's a product of a small majority. It's human nature.

This is particularly so with Conservative MP's. I am nottrying to be nasty and I'll try to be diplomatic here, but you are often dealing with a group of very ruthless, efficient and astute people, who understand intrinsically that weakness can be exploited. He needs a reasonable majority to dampen that sentiment.

 

[Jebus_lives]

I’ll be honest, I think he’s a pillock......

You'd be right.

 

[Tubey]

They are not saying the'll give people more money. They are supporting a group of workers asking for an increase from their employer (as is their right under a free market).

We also have to factor in, making the poorest have more money doesn't automatically mean every gets more money.

I've just said that if you have the base McDonald's wage at £15 per hour, that doesn't happen in isolation. Other fast food companies have to compete or have staff shortages/strikes as a knock-on, so the base wage goes up exponentially (this is a 33% increase). Other low skilled jobs (supermarket staff etc.) look on and then expect higher. Prices will rise as a result, skilled labour will rise sharply in price too. Educated professionals demand higher wages, so enterprise gets hit and can't grow. You get inflation as a result and a slower economy, job losses because the workforce is too expensive and won't keep up with output and so on.

People really need to start having the ability to think laterally about issues like this.

I have no problem with the McDonald's workers asking for it - I have a problem with a guy who wants to be PM supporting it because he's an ideological maniac.

 

[abelard]

Impressive how all the posters who think they're the responsible, level-headed ones in the room have gone in less than an hour from a Corbyn tweet supporting a trade union and the collective bargaining process to 'omigod it is now official Labour policy to pay all McDonalds workers £15/hour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'.

Obviously none of you have ever been involved an any grown-up negotiations before.

What they actually want are slightly improved wages, and above all, more secure hours and protections from being arbitrarily sacked.

Log off twitter already, and calm down.

And, if you think symbolically defending workers against a mammoth tax-evading American corporation is bad politics, you've obviously done well to insulate yourself from the hundreds of thousands of people in this country now on zero hours contracts, and explained why you didn't see 2017 coming.

 

[Jebus_lives]

The counter argument is "well, all other jobs should get pay increases too - punch up, not down!"

So the Momentum/Labour argument is to give everyone a 33% increase in wage then. Great! I can't see how there can be any problems with that!










.... morons.

I'm sure the chief negotiators on here will tell you that you start high and then arrive at a compromise.

 

[Jebus_lives]

1. He's encouraging strikes. Great electoral look right there.

2. It would make Maccies burger flippers higher paid than many skilled professionals.

3. McDonald's would simply cut the workforce if forced to do it, meaning Corbyn would be encouraging job losses.

4. Labour don't even pay a £15 wage for their own low paid positions.

5. If that came the default wage for McDonalds, all that would happen is that prices would rise, skilled professionals would charge more, small to medium businesses would go stagnant or bust, employment rates would be lower and you encourage massive inflation.


It's idiotic. Truly stupid.

He wouldn't be encouraging it. It might be a consequence but he's not asking for it. Let's not get carried away.

 

[catcherintherye]

I've just said that if you have the base McDonald's wage at £15 per hour, that doesn't happen in isolation. Other fast food companies have to compete or have staff shortages/strikes as a knock-on, so the base wage goes up exponentially (this is a 33% increase). Other low skilled jobs (supermarket staff etc.) look on and then expect higher. Prices will rise as a result, skilled labour will rise sharply in price too. Educated professionals demand higher wages, so enterprise gets hit and can't grow. You get inflation as a result and a slower economy, job losses because the workforce is too expensive and won't keep up with output and so on.

People really need to start having the ability to think laterally about issues like this.

I have no problem with the McDonald's workers asking for it - I have a problem with a guy who wants to be PM supporting it because he's an ideological maniac.

Whats wrong with employees starting a negotiation at £15 p/h or a PM for a party that is for working people wishing them good luck?

Given we face deflationary pressures, maybe some inflation will be useful?

 

[catcherintherye]

Impressive how all the posters who think they're the responsible, level-headed ones in the room have gone in less than an hour from a Corbyn tweet supporting a trade union and the collective bargaining process to 'omigod it is now official Labour policy to pay all McDonalds workers £15/hour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'.

Obviously none of you have ever been involved an any grown-up negotiations before.

What they actually want are slightly improved wages, and above all, more secure hours and protections from being arbitrarily sacked.

Log off twitter already, and calm down.

And, if you think symbolically defending workers against a mammoth tax-evading American corporation is bad politics, you've obviously done well to insulate yourself from the hundreds of thousands of people in this country now on zero hours contracts, and explained why you didn't see 2017 coming.

Thats basically it. It's a starting point in a negotiation. Corbyn is wishing them luck in their negotiation.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Thats basically it. It's a starting point in a negotiation. Corbyn is wishing them luck in their negotiation.

The problem is, however well meaning, that people will say, as they have done on here 'OMG this madman wants to give McDonald's workers 27000 a year'

 

[abelard]

Meanwhile, here is what the most recent research on minimum wage increases, based on six cities and over three million people, concludes:

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irle.berkeley.edu

"We measure the effects of six citywide minimum wages that ranged up to $13 in Chicago, the District of Columbia, Oakland, San Francisco, San Jose and Seattle, employing event study and synthetic control methods. Using aggregate data on average earnings and employment in the food services industry, we find significantly positive earnings increases and no significant employment losses. While such evidence suggests the policies raised the earnings of low-wage workers, as intended, a competing explanation is that the industry responds to wage increases by increasing their demand for more productive higher-wage workers, offsetting low-wage layoffs (i.e., labor-labor substitution). To tackle this key question, we present a theoretical framework that connects the responses estimated at the industry-level to the own- and cross-wage labor demand elasticities that summarize the total effect of the policies on workers. Using a calibration exercise, we find that the combination of average earnings gains and constant employment cannot be produced by labor-labor substitution unless there are also effects on hours. To test whether the minimum wage increases demand for higher-wage workers or reduces low-wage workers’ hours, we examine the effects of California’s recent state and local minimum wage policies on the food services industry. There we find no evidence of labor-labor substitution or hours responses. Thus, the most likely explanation for the responses we find in the cities is that the industry’s demand for low-wage workers is inelastic, and the policies raised their earnings."

 

[tsubaki]

1. He's encouraging strikes. Great electoral look right there.

2. It would make Maccies burger flippers higher paid than many skilled professionals.

3. McDonald's would simply cut the workforce if forced to do it, meaning Corbyn would be encouraging job losses.

4. Labour don't even pay a £15 wage for their own low paid positions.

5. If that came the default wage for McDonalds, all that would happen is that prices would rise, skilled professionals would charge more, small to medium businesses would go stagnant or bust, employment rates would be lower and you encourage massive inflation.


It's idiotic. Truly stupid.

No, he isn't. He is supporting people on strike, and you can tell everything about your priorities here that you have completely and utterly ignored the fact that they are also striking over guaranteed hours, the right to know what shifts they are working four weeks in advance and for union recognition.

As for "it would make Maccies burger flippers higher paid than many skilled professionals", perhaps the point there is that if they got all their demands - so a 40 hour week, at £15 pound an hour, full time - the annual sum that would result is between 800 and 1000 times less than what the CEO got when he was told to leave.

 

[abelard]

The problem is, however well meaning, that people will say, as they have done on here 'OMG this madman wants to give McDonald's workers 27000 a year'

I suppose highly suggestible people performing Pavlovian stimulus-response feedback looks with their highly curated Twitter feeds all day will be Corbyn's fault now too ; )

 

[catcherintherye]

The problem is, however well meaning, that people will say, as they have done on here 'OMG this madman wants to give McDonald's workers 27000 a year'

Which is their right. But it's for those who are aware this is untrue to calmly state Corbyn has no impact upon what Macdonalds choose to pay their workers (beyond the statutory minimum requirements).

 

[catcherintherye]

I remember the same scares about the minimum wage and job losses. It was completely unfounded then as well.

 

[orly]

"We support McDonald's workers rights to ask for £15 an hour because they aren't really doing that"