Current Affairs The Far Left

[magicjuan]

Am I reading that right mate? The majority of the population are in poverty?

No, you're not reading it right.

 

[roydo]

No, you're not reading it right.

I did have to check the alcohol strength of my lager, I must admit.

 

[magicjuan]

There are plenty of countries that are more socialist than ours, just in Europe, that I'm sure some of them have experienced. Why are you using absolutes suggesting that they all want to emulate the Soviet Union, or an extreme manifestation?

I find it gauling that there is a snivelling mockery towards those, not only defending themselves, but also considering the situations of others and the future situations the country is headed for. It's like evetyone thinks they're kin Matie Antoinette or some entitled super class of human.

 

[tsubaki]

A lot of them in central London today. I wouldn't mind if at least some of the people pushing for socialism had spent any time at all actually living in a socialist country rather than the fantasy socialist country they have in their heads.

TBH 90% of people who go on those marches don't want to live in a socialist country, they just want the opportunity to live in our country when it is a little bit more socialist than it is now (as it was during the 60s, 70s and 80s) - ie: when people could afford to buy houses, when there was some job security at the lower end of the job market, when it didn't cost thousands just to commute in to London on the train, when your boss didn't make a hundred times more than you did (not counting bonuses), when there was a pension system for all and when they could get educated without getting into tens of thousands of pounds of debt.

 

[roydo]

TBH 90% of people who go on those marches don't want to live in a socialist country, they just want the opportunity to live in our country when it is a little bit more socialist than it is now (as it was during the 60s, 70s and 80s) - ie: when people could afford to buy houses, when there was some job security at the lower end of the job market, when it didn't cost thousands just to commute in to London on the train, when your boss didn't make a hundred times more than you did (not counting bonuses), when there was a pension system for all and when they could get educated without getting into tens of thousands of pounds of debt.

Dont remember the 60s. But I do the late 70s and 80s. Not sure many in London today would really want a return to the major political figure of that age.

 

[tsubaki]

I find it gauling that there is a snivelling mockery towards those, not only defending themselves, but also considering the situations of others and the future situations the country is headed for. It's like evetyone thinks they're kin Matie Antoinette or some entitled super class of human.

The problem is that a lot of that mockery, probably almost all of it, comes from the way in which these issues are presented in the media and how the questions are asked.

As a bit of a mad example, look at the French Rail strikes and the way they have been reported. If you ask people about the strike, most of them will probably repeat the things that the media have told them - that the workers are caning it in the standard French style, that its billions in debt, that its not as efficient as our railway, that Macron has to do this because of competition which will make it better etc etc.

All of this is wrong to one extent or another (the workers have a contract agreed between them and their employer*, the debt at SNCF is about as much as Network Rail's (but SNCF have far more ability to pay it off), every study shows the French system is much more efficient than ours is and bringing in competition on the railway leads to what we have now) but people just take in what they are told, even though it often conflicts with their own experiences.

If instead you ask them first what their experience is of the French rail network, then all of them (or at least all who have been on it) will probably tell you how much better it is than ours - which it is (the TGV Mediterranee between Lyon and Marseille is so superior to the West Coast Main Line that it might as well be a different form of transport) - and that the French unions are right to try to stop it turning into one thats more like ours.

* those are workers contracts, but of course contracts between the Government and private firms are sacrosanct and must never be renegotiated

 

[tsubaki]

Dont remember the 60s. But I do the late 70s and 80s. Not sure many in London today would really want a return to the major political figure of that age.

Thatcher would be left wing these days, if not an actual Remoaner.

 

[orchard]

I find it gauling that there is a snivelling mockery towards those, not only defending themselves, but also considering the situations of others and the future situations the country is headed for. It's like evetyone thinks they're kin Matie Antoinette or some entitled super class of human.

It's not surprising though, it's what consumer society specialises in, doesn't it?

 

[peteblue]

Thatcher would be left wing these days, if not an actual Remoaner.

Hahahahaha.........

 

[tsubaki]

Hahahahaha.........

It is true, pete:

You might say: weren't we supposed to have a common market already? Wasn't that the reason we joined Europe in the first place? Weren't we promised all this in 1973?

It's a fair question to ask. And the truthful answer is: Europe wasn't open for business. Underneath the rhetoric, the old barriers remained. Not just against the outside world, but between the European countries.

Not the classic barriers of tariffs, but the insiduous ones of differing national standards, various restrictions on the provision of services, exclusion of foreign firms from public contracts.

Now that's going to change. Britain has given the lead. There was a tendency in Europe to talk in lofty tones of European Union.

That may be good for the soul. But the body—Europe's firms and organisations and the people who work in them—needs something more nourishing.

We recognised that if Europe was going to be more than a slogan then we must get the basics right. That meant action.

Action to get rid of the barriers. Action to make it possible for insurance companies to do business throughout the Community. Action to let people practice their trades and professions freely throughout the Community. Action to remove the customs barriers and formalities so that goods can circulate freely and without time-consuming delays. Action to make sure that any company could sell its goods and services without let or hindrance. Action to secure free movement of capital throughout the Community.

All this is what Europe is now committed to do. In 1985 the Community's Heads of Government gave a pledge to complete the single market by 1992. To make sure that it was not just a pious hope, they made that pledge part of the Treaty, as the Single European Act.

So it's going to happen. Indeed the barriers are already coming down. Monsieur Delors, the President of the Commission, and our own Commissioner Arthur Cockfield, deserve a lot of credit for the way in which they are keeping up the momentum

(from here)

 

[peteblue]

I see that McDonnell is still pushing his anti capitalist, Venezuela type economic policies, saying that they will transform our economy. They would, but I’m not sure you snowflakes would like it........

 

[Ruairi77]

I see that McDonnell is still pushing his anti capitalist, Venezuela type economic policies, saying that they will transform our economy. They would, but I’m not sure you snowflakes would like it........

Seems funny to me that you would use snowflake as a pejorative term in a 'far left' thread given its 'Fight Club' origin. Wouldn't have pinned you for an anarchist anti consumer hell bent on destroying the capitalist system, but there you go!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I see that McDonnell is still pushing his anti capitalist, Venezuela type economic policies, saying that they will transform our economy. They would, but I’m not sure you snowflakes would like it........

What's he said?

 

[peteblue]

What's he said?

Something about wanting to overthrow capitalism and saying that Venezuela wasn’t socialist enough. It beggars belief how these people would wish such harm on the people.....

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

A lot of them in central London today. I wouldn't mind if at least some of the people pushing for socialism had spent any time at all actually living in a socialist country rather than the fantasy socialist country they have in their heads.

Why do we have to move to Scandinavia first, I would suggest the free marketeers the libertarians should go and live in Parkistan, in particular the parts that are stateless and taxless!