The England U20 World Cup Winning Squad

[Neiler]

The snag for us will be Coleman is now 30 years old and has had an up/down season. Behind him are both Kenny and Holgate and then its Astley and John.

That will be interesting to see if we upgrade or stick with Coleman and see if the kids usurp him.

As for the young players in the team i think theres only Richarlison and DCL. We need to add more top quality of the similar age around them.

Imagine Wan Bissaka coming in or Max Aarons. We could have a right sided pairing with Richarlison over 10 seasons.

Depends on which of coleman kenny holgate will be off.

How quickly we forget we signed Baines and Coleman relatively young or inexperienced at this level took both a fair amount of time to become regulars. Jags to as I remember.

There is a thread somewhere in the vaults with lads wanting Baines sold in the transfer window after he signed. That was very much the popular narrative.

 

[Neiler]

“I think we are a very, very lucky club in England that we have three players with great potential who are just 21-years-old,"

"We have Dominic [Calvert-Lewin], we have Richarlison and we have Ademola [Lookman].”

“And if I bring in a new player, a huge striker or a name, should I destroy one of them? It is also my goal to protect those boys. Everyone agrees with me that they have great potential and a great future."

Marcel Brands.

 

[Zatara]

“I think we are a very, very lucky club in England that we have three players with great potential who are just 21-years-old,"

"We have Dominic [Calvert-Lewin], we have Richarlison and we have Ademola [Lookman].”

“And if I bring in a new player, a huge striker or a name, should I destroy one of them? It is also my goal to protect those boys. Everyone agrees with me that they have great potential and a great future."

Marcel Brands.

2 out of 3 (so far) isnt bad!

 

[Nymzee]

I think Dowell plays better with better players so could be given another chance in pre-season.

 

[Hibbo]

He is the new Tony Hibbert, I’m afraid that is the highest accolade I can pay him.

That sir, is the highest accolade you could pay to any player .

 

[malcson]

The fact that some of the younger players at Everton are inconsistent doesn't mean they don't have a potential future here is odd. Most young players are inconsistent and at 21-22 are still at least 5 years away from what is usually considered an outfield players peak years.

A lot has been made in the press about Hudson-Odoi and Sancho in the England squad. Potentially great players but the truth of the matter is that Sancho has been very inconsistent in Germany and Hudson-Odoi has yet to break through into regular first team football and any appearances he makes are often hyped in order to hammer Sarri or the PL in general. Narrative often nudges fact aside.

There's a core of potentially very good or excellent young English players at Everton and some can't wait to bin them off because they don't have a "prodigy" like impact.

True, Walcott was lorded in the same way at a very young age and then never lived up to the hype. Plenty of players go under the radar at 21/22/23 and then go on to become excellent players.

 

[ClausThomsen]

How quickly we forget we signed Baines and Coleman relatively young or inexperienced at this level took both a fair amount of time to become regulars. Jags to as I remember.

There is a thread somewhere in the vaults with lads wanting Baines sold in the transfer window after he signed. That was very much the popular narrative.

Baines looked like a little boy lost and was kept out by Lescott moving to LB, Jags looked like the step up was way too much and it took a while to finally decide that he was definitely a centre-half and not a defensive midfielder and Coleman had to be farmed out to Blackpool for a year. Baines and Jagielka also had a lot of first team experience at their previous clubs as well and still took a while to fit in.

 

[Lanolin]

How quickly we forget we signed Baines and Coleman relatively young or inexperienced at this level took both a fair amount of time to become regulars. Jags to as I remember.

There is a thread somewhere in the vaults with lads wanting Baines sold in the transfer window after he signed. That was very much the popular narrative.

Not really true with Baines or Jagielka to be fair. Baines started the season in the team, got injured and was out for a couple of months, and then struggled to displace Lescott from left back once he was fit again because we were doing so well. I don't doubt that some people would have been happy to sell Baines at that point - in the same way that some people would have been happy to sell Gana this year - but they would have been a tiny minority and quite clearly stupid. Jagielka played virtually every game in his first season with us. Coleman was a bit different in that we all knew he was a latecomer to the game, and he was initially treated as a bit of a novelty having only cost £60k.

It's a difficult balance with young players, you don't want to write them off too soon, but nor do you want to be handing out new contracts which mean you end up with a load of 25 year olds earning £30k a week and not getting a look in. I've seen people saying we should loan out Holgate next season, but that will mean he'll effectively be 24 and have spent 5 years at the club before we look at him becoming a regular. That's not ideal. At some point the club has to make a decision on whether a player is going to make it here or not, and a few of this bunch are beginning to look like the answer is going to be no. There's no shame in that, and it won't mean they can't have very good careers, but we're not Chelsea, we can't have 50 young lads on the books indefinitely just in case they turn out better than we thought.

 

[Neiler]

Not really true with Baines or Jagielka to be fair. Baines started the season in the team, got injured and was out for a couple of months, and then struggled to displace Lescott from left back once he was fit again because we were doing so well. I don't doubt that some people would have been happy to sell Baines at that point - in the same way that some people would have been happy to sell Gana this year - but they would have been a tiny minority and quite clearly stupid. Jagielka played virtually every game in his first season with us. Coleman was a bit different in that we all knew he was a latecomer to the game, and he was initially treated as a bit of a novelty having only cost £60k.

It's a difficult balance with young players, you don't want to write them off too soon, but nor do you want to be handing out new contracts which mean you end up with a load of 25 year olds earning £30k a week and not getting a look in. I've seen people saying we should loan out Holgate next season, but that will mean he'll effectively be 24 and have spent 5 years at the club before we look at him becoming a regular. That's not ideal. At some point the club has to make a decision on whether a player is going to make it here or not, and a few of this bunch are beginning to look like the answer is going to be no. There's no shame in that, and it won't mean they can't have very good careers, but we're not Chelsea, we can't have 50 young lads on the books indefinitely just in case they turn out better than we thought.

I wouldnt correct you a chara and i do have a vague recollection of him getting an early debut, but he was largely out of the team for a season perhaps a season and half. Lescott was in terrffic form, scoring a heap of goals if i rememebr. Again i have a different recollection on Jags, he might have been involved in but and pieces and if i remember he was a utility and didnt see much action at cetre back. I remember playing arsenal at home around Christmas time, being two nil up and eventually loosing 3-2, that was Jags first game at centre back and i remember it clearly because i and a few others here went ape manure and said he would never make a centre back. Im going form memory here though admittedly. im sure someone will pull stats. Im pretty sure it took them both a season or a couple couple to become established. Shay of course took a couple of seasons to make the team via a loan to Blackpool and stint on the wing before he was trusted as a regular right back.

I would take a different view on young players if i am honest, they dont have a book price and are pure profit. Thus if you continuously loan out a player - say Pennighton for a loan fee of a million and someone else picks up his wage its cost neutral and you eventually cash in. They are great money savers how much money as someone like Seamus saved us over the years, an established PL right back for 60k, no transfer fee, liability wages only, 10 years service and multiple transfer fees saved. of ocurse there comes a tipping point with them were you may need to realise the asset, on the lads in question they are very very young, i tend to think its 23 before you know what a level a lad might reach.

 

[Billy Dean]

Sancho has been very inconsistent in Germany

One of the highest assist makers in Europe's top 5 leagues and fair share of goals too.

 

[Lanolin]

I wouldnt correct you a chara and i do have a vague recollection of him getting an early debut, but he was largely out of the team for a season perhaps a season and half. Lescott was in terrffic form, scoring a heap of goals if i rememebr. Again i have a different recollection on Jags, he might have been involved in but and pieces and if i remember he was a utility and didnt see much action at cetre back. I remember playing arsenal at home around Christmas time, being two nil up and eventually loosing 3-2, that was Jags first game at centre back and i remember it clearly because i and a few others here went ape manure and said he would never make a centre back. Im going form memory here though admittedly. im sure someone will pull stats. Im pretty sure it took them both a season or a couple couple to become established.

I would take a different view on young players if i am honest, they dont have a book price and are pure profit. Thus if you continuously loan out a player - say Pennighton for a loan fee of a million and someone else picks up his wage its cost neutral and you eventually cash in. They are great money savers how much money as someone like Seamus saved us over the years, an established PL right back for 60k, no transfer fee, liability wages only, 10 years service and multiple transfer fees saved. of ocurse there comes a tipping point with them were you may need to realise the asset, on the lads in question they are very very young, i tend to think its 23 before you know what a level a lad might reach.

Sorry I think I might have made it sound like I was giving an opinion there, when I was actually telling you a fact. Jagielka started 40 games in his first season for us. Your clear memory of Jagielka's first game at centre half is a false one, as our 2 games against Arsenal finished 4-1 and 1-0. Of course if you don't think 40 starts and 9 sub appearances counts as establishing yourself that's a slightly different argument.

Baines was initially establishing himself in the team. He'd started 9 games for us before getting injured in October, he came straight back into the side when fit in December, broke down in the first half of his comeback game, and missed another half dozen games. After that he struggled to get back into the side, and only started 5 of the last 18 games. He started 34 games the following season.

If you think clubs like Ipswich are paying us £1m to loan the Matthew Penningtons of the world you're living in cloud cuckoo land. We'll have got nothing from them. Bolton can't pay their own staff, they aren't paying us £2m to loan Joe Williams and Callum Connolly for a year, we're giving them away for free for experience.

 

[WA Toffee]

I think the key to having these players develop is to have top class players next to them. If we have a front line all in their early 20s and developing, it is much harder than if they had someone like Aguero or Hazard to take the pressure off them.
I know we won't attract players of that caliber, but someone like Dzeko playing alongside them could help bring those players on much more than any coaching will ever do

 

[Neiler]

Sorry I think I might have made it sound like I was giving an opinion there, when I was actually telling you a fact. Jagielka started 40 games in his first season for us. Your clear memory of Jagielka's first game at centre half is a false one, as our 2 games against Arsenal finished 4-1 and 1-0. Of course if you don't think 40 starts and 9 sub appearances counts as establishing yourself that's a slightly different argument.

Baines was initially establishing himself in the team. He'd started 9 games for us before getting injured in October, he came straight back into the side when fit in December, broke down in the first half of his comeback game, and missed another half dozen games. After that he struggled to get back into the side, and only started 5 of the last 18 games. He started 34 games the following season.

If you think clubs like Ipswich are paying us £1m to loan the Matthew Pennington's of the world you're living in cloud cuckoo land. We'll have got nothing from them. Bolton can't pay their own staff, they aren't paying us £2m to loan Joe Williams and Callum Connolly for a year, we're giving them away for free for experience.

What would the internet be like if people had opinions. lol If you say Jags started 40 games ill beleive rather then loose a peice of my life checking, im never particually arsed about being right on the interweb when it comes to life numbing points like that. It took a while for him i think to establish himself as player of importance in the mindset of the fans or find his true role in the team, which i suppose is where we are with this young guys as well who havent made positions their own and been auxiliary utility players in a few different positions similar to Jags starting out. Was it 4-1 yeah i could have sworn we went two up, fair enough, Jags was rubbish that day though cleaned out.

Grand yeah, so it took Baines a while to establish himself as well. If im honest i still maintain it took it took all three of them much time to establish themselves here certainly in the minds of fans rather then whats written on tranfermarkt. My point being its where we are with these young guys and lessons from the past can be learned to guide our patience with them.

Loan deals are an area i find frustrating and poorly reported you cant prove they didnt and i cant prove they did, i see loan fees and context of loan deals reported different everywhere. I know its a growing market and there are many loopholes there to increase your finance some clubs do it brilliantly, we are reported to have paid a 7 mill fee for Zouma for example. I suspect we arent naive enough to not to have some kind of financial gain and i suspect the loan market is an area we have moved into more and more as a purposeful strategy as a revenue driver.

 

[Lanolin]

What would the internet be like if people had opinions. lol If you say Jags started 40 games ill beleive rather then loose a peice of my life checking, im never particually arsed about being right on the interweb when it comes to life numbing points like that. It took a while for him i think to establish himself as player of importance in the mindset of the fans or find his true role in the team, which i suppose is where we are with this young guys as well who havent made positions their own and been auxiliary utility players in a few different positions. Was it 4-1 yeah i could have sworn we went two up, fair enough, Jags was rubbish that day though cleaned out.

Grand yeah, so it took Baines a while to establish himself as well. If im honest i still maintain it tookit took all three of them much time to establish themselves here certainly in the minds of fans rather then what written on tranfermarkt. My point being its where we are with this young guys and lessons from the past can be learned to guide our patience with them.

Its an area i find frustrating and poorly reported you cant prove they didnt and i cant prove they did, i see loan fees and context of loan deals reported different everywhere. I know its a growing market and here are many loopholes there to increase your finance some clubs do it brilliantly, we are reported to have paid a 7 mill fee for Zouma for example. I suspect we arent naive enough to not to have some kind of financial gain and i suspect the loan market is an area we have moved into more and more as a purposeful strategy as a revenue driver.

Depends what you mean by prove I suppose. A quick look at Ipswich's published accounts tells me that they made a profit of around £3m on player trading last year, which they put down to selling a player to Bristol City for £3.5m and one to Barnsley for a reported £750k. They signed 8 players and loaned 3 more. So on the basis that those 11 players apparently cost a total of somewhere in the region of £1.25m, it's pretty safe to say that we can prove beyond reasonable doubt that they aren't shelling out £1m every time they loan somebody.

 

[malcson]

The snag for us will be Coleman is now 30 years old and has had an up/down season. Behind him are both Kenny and Holgate and then its Astley and John.

That will be interesting to see if we upgrade or stick with Coleman and see if the kids usurp him.

As for the young players in the team i think theres only Richarlison and DCL. We need to add more top quality of the similar age around them.

Imagine Wan Bissaka coming in or Max Aarons. We could have a right sided pairing with Richarlison over 10 seasons.

Depends on which of coleman kenny holgate will be off.

Jonjoe Kenny was playing ahead of Wan Bissaka for England U20, winning the World Cup. Bissaka got a break 18 months ago due to injury to other players and got a run in the team, fair play to him he took his chance and has cemented the position. JJK didn't do the same when Coleman was injured but didn't do too bad. He may well yet come in again and make that step.