Current Affairs The Conservative Party

[COYBL25]

Appeal. I used to work for JCP/Citizens Advice Bureau - you'd be amazed (well, you probably wouldn't be, but just a turn of phrase) just how many they reject in the hope they don't appeal. They have rejection quotas they have to meet.

I'm not as familiar with ESA, but with DLA/PIP the norm is you are rejected or lowballed on first application, then on appeal there's a good chance of turning it round, and failing that if you go to tribunal then it's genuinely independent and they'll turn it round if a genuine application. I've read many a scathing award from a tribunal criticising the actions of DWP - it's a genuine disgrace that it still persists, but it's a result of the 'scroungers' mindset politically.

Spot on.

Every three years we have to go through this charade with my youngest lad, when we have to re apply for his DLA and Motobility Allowance.

You spend the best part of a day filling the forms in, carefully explaining that nothing has changed since last time and then get knocked back.

The first time this happened we went all the way to a tribunal ( 9 mths later ) and the panel all but apologised to us for being there, awarded us all the back money that he was owed and re instated the original award.

This time, when we got knocked back, we appealed and were told that we`d have to take it to a tribunal again, which meant losing his motobility car and us having to buy a second hand car in the interim.

About a month after we`d bought the car, a letter came out of the blue, saying that they`d re considered the " evidence " and had decided to reinstate his DLA / Motobility Allowance.

We`ve got to through it all again in a couple of months and I`m dreading it tbh.

From what I can gather, they have targets for getting rid of people and as long as they can get rid of them at the " initial " stage, they hit their targets.

The fact that the appeal is later won at a tribunal is irrelevant, it`s the initial getting the claimant off the books that counts in the figures.

 

[Bohemian Toffee]

Appeal. I used to work for JCP/Citizens Advice Bureau - you'd be amazed (well, you probably wouldn't be, but just a turn of phrase) just how many they reject in the hope they don't appeal. They have rejection quotas they have to meet.

I'm not as familiar with ESA, but with DLA/PIP the norm is you are rejected or lowballed on first application, then on appeal there's a good chance of turning it round, and failing that if you go to tribunal then it's genuinely independent and they'll turn it round if a genuine application. I've read many a scathing award from a tribunal criticising the actions of DWP - it's a genuine disgrace that it still persists, but it's a result of the 'scroungers' mindset politically.

Former colleague of mine worked for the Job Centre, he quit for that reason; having to knock people back to fill a quota.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Enjoy the wage increases...

Real wages are expected to remain stagnant for 20 years. In 2026, wages are forecast to be £11.70 lower than if the pre-2008 trend in wage growth had continued.

Thread by @DavidHenigUK on Thread Reader App

Thread by @DavidHenigUK: Sub 2% growth as the new normal is pretty grim. Someone cleverer than me can do the compound growth since 2008 but it doesn't sound like a lot. Suspect that between the IFS...…

threadreaderapp.com

 

[COYBL25]

I predicted this outcome, but I didn't predict 0 points, which is a slap in the face. I'm going to speak to Citizens Advice and see where it takes me. I will get them to help me with my PIP application, too. I may as well also apply for JSA seeing as I am apparantly fit to work.

It's easy to give up but it's exactly what they want. I'm determined to get every penny off them now, whereas I would have been satisfied with ESA until I am able to work again.

The wording of the application and assessment is horrible. The attitude that they portray is that unless you're in a near vegetative state then you're on your own.

I`m really sorry to hear about this mate and if need any advice with the forms, don`t hesitate to get in touch.

Unfortunately from having to go through this several times in the past, with my lad, I`ve had to become quite expert at filling the forms in.

As you know some of the stuff on there is really intrusive and totally de humanises the applicant.

The system is designed to make people give up at the first stages and heaven help you if you aren`t that literate or aren`t used to filling in a block of complicated forms in.

I was the same as you, after getting knocked back, in that it became a personal mission to get what my lad was entitled to.

I hate them.

 

[Joey66]

Spot on.

Every three years we have to go through this charade with my youngest lad, when we have to re apply for his DLA and Motobility Allowance.

You spend the best part of a day filling the forms in, carefully explaining that nothing has changed since last time and then get knocked back.

The first time this happened we went all the way to a tribunal ( 9 mths later ) and the panel all but apologised to us for being there, awarded us all the back money that he was owed and re instated the original award.

This time, when we got knocked back, we appealed and were told that we`d have to take it to a tribunal again, which meant losing his motobility car and us having to buy a second hand car in the interim.

About a month after we`d bought the car, a letter came out of the blue, saying that they`d re considered the " evidence " and had decided to reinstate his DLA / Motobility Allowance.

We`ve got to through it all again in a couple of months and I`m dreading it tbh.

From what I can gather, they have targets for getting rid of people and as long as they can get rid of them at the " initial " stage, they hit their targets.

The fact that the appeal is later won at a tribunal is irrelevant, it`s the initial getting the claimant off the books that counts in the figureurse The e nurse

The person who assessed your son was noting more than a jumped up retired Nurses........paid a fortune plus with a big bonus for everyone she kicks of any benefits - the computer in her eyes always says No .....

The privatisation of this service under Osborne & Cammeron is disgusting it has not saved the DWP a penny ....

A GP should decide these matters .......as they used to ......

Anyone beware they have cameras in the waiting area - plus a two way mirror observing anyone's medical .....


Ghastly places to be humiliated in - you are now allowed to record the medical .....I would advise this strongly .....

 

[Tubey]

The person who assessed your son was noting more than a jumped up retired Nurses........paid a fortune plus with a big bonus for everyone she kicks of any benefits - the computer in her eyes always says No .....

The privatisation of this service under Osborne & Cammeron is disgusting it has not saved the DWP a penny ....

A GP should decide these matters .......as they used to ......

Anyone beware they have cameras in the waiting area - plus a two way mirror observing anyone's medical .....


Ghastly places to be humiliated in - you are now allowed to record the medical .....I would advise this strongly .....

Same. They actually, literally lie about the medicals. Not hyperbole either; they misrepresent completely what you tell them and what they see to get the outcome they want.

The whole thing should be a national scandal. The amount of peoples' mental health affected by the process is incredible. I left JCP and volunteered at CAB at the time largely to fight it.

 

[Joey66]

Same. They actually, literally lie about the medicals. Not hyperbole either; they misrepresent completely what you tell them and what they see to get the outcome they want.

The whole thing should be a national scandal. The amount of peoples' mental health affected by the process is incredible. I left JCP and volunteered at CAB at the time largely to fight it.

The computer says No - nice to your face then the report comes back totally the opposite to how the meeting / examination actually went .....
Tape the meeting helps with an appeal ...... @COYBL25

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

 

[Baines' left foot]

I`m really sorry to hear about this mate and if need any advice with the forms, don`t hesitate to get in touch.

Unfortunately from having to go through this several times in the past, with my lad, I`ve had to become quite expert at filling the forms in.

As you know some of the stuff on there is really intrusive and totally de humanises the applicant.

The system is designed to make people give up at the first stages and heaven help you if you aren`t that literate or aren`t used to filling in a block of complicated forms in.

I was the same as you, after getting knocked back, in that it became a personal mission to get what my lad was entitled to.

I hate them.

There's one thing I am having a hard time comprehending. I went off sick in March last year, and received statutory sick pay from my employer until November 2020. My contract was terminated in August 2021. I didn't apply for ESA until June 2021 (but backdated until March), as to be perfectly honest my mental health was shot to pieces and I just shut myself off. Now they are telling me that although I am not fit to do my old job (which was my current job when I applied for ESA), I can do a job.

With all this considered, was I supposed to quit my job as soon as I stopped receiving SSP to attain ESA? If that's the expectation then I am lost for words. I had been with my employer for over 5 years and as a result I received a fairly decent pay off (coupled with the pay out from corporate insurance they had).

How can I claim JSA, (which is the only other benefit I could feasibly claim, as my savings are too high for universal credit), when I was off sick from my current job? What was I supposed to live on? I don't understand what they expect from people.

 

[Charro]

There's one thing I am having a hard time comprehending. I went off sick in March last year, and received statutory sick pay from my employer until November 2020. My contract was terminated in August 2021. I didn't apply for ESA until June 2021 (but backdated until March), as to be perfectly honest my mental health was shot to pieces and I just shut myself off. Now they are telling me that although I am not fit to do my old job (which was my current job when I applied for ESA), I can do a job.

With all this considered, was I supposed to quit my job as soon as I stopped receiving SSP to attain ESA? If that's the expectation then I am lost for words. I had been with my employer for over 5 years and as a result I received a fairly decent pay off (coupled with the pay out from corporate insurance they had).

How can I claim JSA, (which is the only other benefit I could feasibly claim, as my savings are too high for universal credit), when I was off sick from my current job? What was I supposed to live on? I don't understand what they expect from people.

Have you been assessed for contributions based JSA?

 

[Baines' left foot]

Have you been assessed for contributions based JSA?

I believe it's just called 'New Style JSA' now. I applied yesterday after being rejected for ESA.

 

[COYBL25]

There's one thing I am having a hard time comprehending. I went off sick in March last year, and received statutory sick pay from my employer until November 2020. My contract was terminated in August 2021. I didn't apply for ESA until June 2021 (but backdated until March), as to be perfectly honest my mental health was shot to pieces and I just shut myself off. Now they are telling me that although I am not fit to do my old job (which was my current job when I applied for ESA), I can do a job.

With all this considered, was I supposed to quit my job as soon as I stopped receiving SSP to attain ESA? If that's the expectation then I am lost for words. I had been with my employer for over 5 years and as a result I received a fairly decent pay off (coupled with the pay out from corporate insurance they had).

How can I claim JSA, (which is the only other benefit I could feasibly claim, as my savings are too high for universal credit), when I was off sick from my current job? What was I supposed to live on? I don't understand what they expect from people.

Unfortunately you’re correct.

ESA ( Sick Pay ) isn’t dependent on any savings you might have.

However as you’ve been knocked bsck from ESA, you then move onto JSA, which takes your savings into account ( if you declare them )

Also with JSA you have to “ prove “ your looking for work and comply with anything they ask of you or they can stop it.

I know you had a white collar job in the building game mate, but they will say that you’re fit to work on a till, drive a cab, drive a van etc.

A lad I walk the dog with, mid fifties, ex forces with bad PTSD ( can’t keep still or concentrate and walks miles everyday to combat his problems ) has been at almost constant war with them over the exact same thing as you describe.

He’s very obviously unfit for work, they say he is, he loses his benefits, has to appeal, wins and around and around it goes.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

I believe it's just called 'New Style JSA' now. I applied yesterday after being rejected for ESA.

Totally grim. The thing is, benefits are meant to be primarily designed to help people in exactly your sort of situation. The system isn’t fit for purpose. I’ve seen people totally defeated after fighting and appealing for ages. There are tens of thousands of people in the U.K. who are basically just surviving. Easy for me to say but try not to let it beat you.

Hate seeing Tory MPs voting and deciding on this issue as they have absolutely no idea (or care) what it’s like.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Unfortunately you’re correct.

ESA ( Sick Pay ) isn’t dependent on any savings you might have.

However as you’ve been knocked bsck from ESA, you then move onto JSA, which takes your savings into account ( if you declare them )

Also with JSA you have to “ prove “ your looking for work and comply with anything they ask of you or they can stop it.

I know you had a white collar job in the building game mate, but they will say that you’re fit to work on a till, drive a cab, drive a van etc.

A lad I walk the dog with, mid fifties, ex forces with bad PTSD ( can’t keep still or concentrate and walks miles everyday to combat his problems ) has been at almost constant war with them over the exact same thing as you describe.

He’s very obviously unfit for work, they say he is, he loses his benefits, has to appeal, wins and around and around it goes.

It’s a whole industry. Whole thing needs scrapped and a form of UI to replace it.

 

[Baines' left foot]

Unfortunately you’re correct.

ESA ( Sick Pay ) isn’t dependent on any savings you might have.

However as you’ve been knocked bsck from ESA, you then move onto JSA, which takes your savings into account ( if you declare them )

Also with JSA you have to “ prove “ your looking for work and comply with anything they ask of you or they can stop it.

I know you had a white collar job in the building game mate, but they will say that you’re fit to work on a till, drive a cab, drive a van etc.

A lad I walk the dog with, mid fifties, ex forces with bad PTSD ( can’t keep still or concentrate and walks miles everyday to combat his problems ) has been at almost constant war with them over the exact same thing as you describe.

He’s very obviously unfit for work, they say he is, he loses his benefits, has to appeal, wins and around and around it goes.

In that case, there's not a huge amount I could have done more. I have applied for JSA as soon as I got confirmation of the rejection, so it's put my mind at ease a little.

Out of desperation I have been considering getting back on the job hunt, and I am slightly better than I was when I made the application. Perhaps I can get a work from home job in the not too distant future, but in construction that's not very common, and my experience is site based. Not a chance I will drive a cab or work in a shop. I had 3 non fault car accidents which are partly why I'm in the situation I am in now. I have sensitive hearing (hyperacusis) so working in a shop or an office is not really an option right now. If they want to fight me on that then they will get a fight. I can be a stubborn so and so when I want to be.

The story about your friend is very sad, and puts things in to perspective for me a bit. I have to make the choice now of fighting this, which may involve battling with my GP, and more distress and another 4 months of waiting, or moving on.

Another element to this has irked me somewhat. If I hadn't had the luxury of moving back in with my parents or no guarantor, what would I have done for housing, seeing as my savings are above the threshold for universal credit? Savings I accrued to try and get myself on to the property ladder in what is a disaster of a housing market for young people. Would I be expected to stay in hotels until my savings dwindled? People shouldn't be punished for good financial planning. If I'd pissed it all away then I would be able to claim UC. It hardly encourages you to save.

The whole system is a mess, and you don't realise just how much so until you need help yourself.