Current Affairs The Conservative Party

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So yet another blunder by Grayling, but he won't resign or be sacked. Why? Because everyone is so outraged at everything now that all you have to do is wait for the mob to move on to the next thing.

There's no way he should still have a job in government, but we're seeing the "boy who cried wolf" very much in action.
 
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So yet another blunder by Grayling, but he won't resign or be sacked. Why? Because everyone is so outraged at everything now that all you have to do is wait for the mob to move on to the next thing.

There's no way he should still have a job in government, but we're seeing the "boy who cried wolf" very much in action.

Who needs political satire when you have Chris Grayling and the Tory Government.
 
Seeing that there's been a total of ONE successful prosecution since the original anti-FGM bill was passed about 25 years ago, I'd say the current legislation urgently needs revision.

Not to defend Chope, but if the history of anti-FGM legislation tells us anything its that MPs need to take a proper look at this and related issues before they start firing off Private Members Bills. As you say, there has been one successful prosecution in 25 years, which given that the practice still goes on suggests that the law wasn't that effective.

Take this for example. If this bill had passed, it would have given the Courts more power to take into its protection children who are at risk of FGM. That is great, protecting girls from being subject to medical procedures carried out without their consent and solely for cultural / religious reasons. This is something that I am sure everyone would agree is absolutely necessary, we cannot have girls assaulted like this.

What would happen though if social services took a family to court because the family wanted their son circumsized? That is a medical procedure which is usually carried out without the child's consent, and which takes place solely for cultural / religious reasons. On what grounds would a Court - any Court - refuse such a request? If that lad got to 18 and decided to make a criminal complaint of assault against his parents / the medical staff who carried that procedure out, why should he be treated any differently than his sister would if she made the same complaint?
 
Not to defend Chope, but if the history of anti-FGM legislation tells us anything its that MPs need to take a proper look at this and related issues before they start firing off Private Members Bills. As you say, there has been one successful prosecution in 25 years, which given that the practice still goes on suggests that the law wasn't that effective.

Take this for example. If this bill had passed, it would have given the Courts more power to take into its protection children who are at risk of FGM. That is great, protecting girls from being subject to medical procedures carried out without their consent and solely for cultural / religious reasons. This is something that I am sure everyone would agree is absolutely necessary, we cannot have girls assaulted like this.

What would happen though if social services took a family to court because the family wanted their son circumsized? That is a medical procedure which is usually carried out without the child's consent, and which takes place solely for cultural / religious reasons. On what grounds would a Court - any Court - refuse such a request? If that lad got to 18 and decided to make a criminal complaint of assault against his parents / the medical staff who carried that procedure out, why should he be treated any differently than his sister would if she made the same complaint?

Our borough has pretty high rates for it (apparently - it's an area the missus covers a bit in her work), and it's completely different to circumcision in pretty much every way. Firstly, circumcisions are done by doctors, so are usually conducted in a safe and sterile environment. FGM, by contrast, are usually done by members of the family, which presents not only difficulties in terms of safety, but which girl is going to shop in their mother/grandmother for butchering them? Secondly, circumcisions are largely done for hygiene purposes and don't hinder the sexual performance or enjoyment of the individual. FGM is done out of the daft belief that it will make women more faithful to their husband, and not only hugely hinders their sexual enjoyment, but results in a lifetime of pain (you can see women that have had it done as they walk in a unique way due to the pain apparently). So FGM is more of a control thing by men over women, and this is compounded by many religious leaders promoting it as something that 'good' girls should have done, to the extent that any female who doesn't have it done can be ostracised from their community.

Several members of my wife's team in the NHS have had the procedure, and is truly gruesome. Given the complexities involved in actually identifying who has performed the activity, I don't know if even this new legislation would make 'that' much difference, but it surely can't do any harm either, especially when coupled with continued efforts at education.
 
Our borough has pretty high rates for it (apparently - it's an area the missus covers a bit in her work), and it's completely different to circumcision in pretty much every way. Firstly, circumcisions are done by doctors, so are usually conducted in a safe and sterile environment. FGM, by contrast, are usually done by members of the family, which presents not only difficulties in terms of safety, but which girl is going to shop in their mother/grandmother for butchering them? Secondly, circumcisions are largely done for hygiene purposes and don't hinder the sexual performance or enjoyment of the individual. FGM is done out of the daft belief that it will make women more faithful to their husband, and not only hugely hinders their sexual enjoyment, but results in a lifetime of pain (you can see women that have had it done as they walk in a unique way due to the pain apparently). So FGM is more of a control thing by men over women, and this is compounded by many religious leaders promoting it as something that 'good' girls should have done, to the extent that any female who doesn't have it done can be ostracised from their community.

Several members of my wife's team in the NHS have had the procedure, and is truly gruesome. Given the complexities involved in actually identifying who has performed the activity, I don't know if even this new legislation would make 'that' much difference, but it surely can't do any harm either, especially when coupled with continued efforts at education.

Indeed, it (FGM) is an absolutely horrifying procedure that should be absolutely illegal. I'd however question how many male circumcisions are actually carried out for hygiene purposes, rather than cultural / religious reasons.
 
Indeed, it (FGM) is an absolutely horrifying procedure that should be absolutely illegal. I'd however question how many male circumcisions are actually carried out for hygiene purposes, rather than cultural / religious reasons.

Well yeah, it does undoubtedly have religious roots that, like most religious things, are kinda nuts, but I believe the rationale today is that it's more hygienic. I'm an atheist heathen so find most religious stuff a bit bonkers tbh, but I guess the point is that a circumcision doesn't effect the boy in any great way, whereas chopping the clitoris off of a girl most definitely does. The fact that there are believed to be over 100,000 women in the UK who have been butchered in this way, with the first successful conviction after 30 years of it being a criminal act only made last month highlights the very long way still to go in order to protect girls from this horrendous act.
 
Well yeah, it does undoubtedly have religious roots that, like most religious things, are kinda nuts, but I believe the rationale today is that it's more hygienic. I'm an atheist heathen so find most religious stuff a bit bonkers tbh, but I guess the point is that a circumcision doesn't effect the boy in any great way, whereas chopping the clitoris off of a girl most definitely does. The fact that there are believed to be over 100,000 women in the UK who have been butchered in this way, with the first successful conviction after 30 years of it being a criminal act only made last month highlights the very long way still to go in order to protect girls from this horrendous act.

Male circumcisions for medical reasons are very rare. Most are for the reasons @tsubaki mentioned. Should also be banned (I think they are working on that btw). The risks are small but they are still present. Even though the whole ordeal is a whole let less horrific than FGM.
 
Well yeah, it does undoubtedly have religious roots that, like most religious things, are kinda nuts, but I believe the rationale today is that it's more hygienic. I'm an atheist heathen so find most religious stuff a bit bonkers tbh, but I guess the point is that a circumcision doesn't effect the boy in any great way, whereas chopping the clitoris off of a girl most definitely does. The fact that there are believed to be over 100,000 women in the UK who have been butchered in this way, with the first successful conviction after 30 years of it being a criminal act only made last month highlights the very long way still to go in order to protect girls from this horrendous act.

Absolutely. Its very difficult to see how that could happen without a realization of what would constitute an effective way of protecting girls though, simply banning it clearly hasn't worked and its appears that the Government / MPs do not want to bring in a more effective measure that would thereby criminalize something that some communities see as essential (not that I am saying that was why Chope voted this down).
 
Interesting that despite not only the Tory government saying overseas aid was ring-fenced, and May reiterating that in 2017, Johnson is now suggesting it should be heavily reduced, and another Tory (whose name I forget) is suggesting chucking in funding for things like BBC World Service so that it can be reduced.

Is this the government that wants to build influence around the world or the government that wants to shrink into little Britain?
 
Indeed, it (FGM) is an absolutely horrifying procedure that should be absolutely illegal. I'd however question how many male circumcisions are actually carried out for hygiene purposes, rather than cultural / religious reasons.

I remember a soon to be teenage freind telling me he had to get his self gratification in before a certain age because it's considered a sin in the religion his parents practised. The splicing was basically to render self gratification pointless. Of course there are ways round the effects of circumcision, lube ect. But still, it's rather brutal...
 
So yet another blunder by Grayling, but he won't resign or be sacked. Why? Because everyone is so outraged at everything now that all you have to do is wait for the mob to move on to the next thing.

There's no way he should still have a job in government, but we're seeing the "boy who cried wolf" very much in action.

It is a disgrace, and Grayling and his civil servants are incompetent and should be removed.....
 
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